Well, it seems like you don’t understand what “passing the filter” and “caching” means, i gave you too much credit, maybe you aren’t that intelligent after all, i’m out of this convo.
Yet you still talk, without any data supporting your theory
Who is “we” ?
And you still talk, without any facts supporting your posts.
But that’s not problem on our side, if you do not read/understand the very first post where is clearly all written even for mentally hilarious Earthlings.
Crypto winter has hit XCH less than others, that being said ROI is much longer than it used to be. 100TB makes around 1.14 XCH a month
If someone has got free storage we understand. Sadly we pay more than 10$/TB for HDDs so the pessimistic 1$/TB for plotting is quite irellevant.
In addition to that farming will cost another 1$/TB per year.
If you want to make profit focus on cost of storage and not cost of plotting.
I’m paying for all of this with my cigarette money, In 93 years I’ve never smoked so I saved up all my coins
So thats 0,05$/plot…
My old dual Xeon shitbox is using about 300 Watts to create 60 plots per day. That’s 0,0384$/plot. On 400$ hardware.
Even when ignoring SSD cost. We are talking about eventually saving 250$ per petabyte. So if I spend at least 40k$ on storage I should consider to upgrade the plotter…
For same price, you get 18min rig producing 80 plots/day…once you get bored, you sell it to gamers
Sounds as interesting theory with a major flaw that crypto-kids seem to refuse/not understand.
It seems to be smart move to buy used HDDs for 10$/tb, what matters is density/watt/roi aka DWR. We bought recently 18TB for 265$ or 14.72$/tb with highest DWR on Earth right now. We used to buy low density cheap drives, but they have poor DWR
If we plot for 0.05$/plot, with present price - HDD is for free just after 3 years and increased capacity +30-50%.
If you plot for usual 1$/plot as estimate for fancy stuff speedy kids seems to use. The only way to repay is to owe >51% of Chia network, and manipulate price.
Even if you somehow manage, numbers are still against you because we repay HDD in a week…buy Lambo and have ROFL
As Albert used to say “Compound interest is most powerful force in the Universe”
Secrets of business world:
COO aka Cost Of Ownerships. The very best ones earn a lot with almost nothing
ROIC aka Return On Invested Capital - the best ones manage over 7%/year. We currently do 25-33%
I’ve never smoked either, so over my lifetime I’ve saved a shedload of cash to
Never been one for heavy drinking, so yet more cash saved.
Check your math and assumptions.
Your 18 TB disk will make 6,45$/month - 1,2$/month for electricity = 5,2$/month. You disk is not free after 3 years. It’s free after 4,5 years. I will just ignore the cost of plotting here which will add two more month only.
Plots for 1$? That’s nonsense. That’s 500 W to produce 4 plots a day. Based on that claim I should have recognizd I am feeding a troll…
In your initial post you mentioned hardware cost of about 1.600$ for you plotter. So how ist it only $400 now? Resell value?
You are ignoring risk. Assuming a drive is loosing 30% of value / year and you decide to bail out in one year you made a loss of 17$ / disk. A used 12 TB disk for 120$ will result in no loss in the same scenario.
Purpose of this thread was to compare costs with others. So far we have found out “I do not know…who cares”, and other excuses for failed sound business plan. If you have exact numbers, feel free to share it and show your efficiency/profitability.
18TB with XFS (ext4 is +/-1% exactly same for marriage-like-problems with management), assuming 100% utilisation (which is possible maybe with plotting k33-40 plots) income 5.09$/18TB drive (freshly calculated with latest analytics +/-1% error). Drive consuming ~6.5Wh or -1.45$ energy costs. 3.64$ profit per drive. ~130 farmed if price holds 28$. My COO for this Drive is 93.50$. We are ready to replace the drive with profit. Or worst case scenario 138.60$, or 8.60$ loss. RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NO WITHOUT DREAMING ABOUT IMAGINARY FUTURE Chia PRICES.
Unless your mom pays for energy, worn SSD, and all pointless crap you bought around. We always calculate COO and consumables. If you buy 10k $ plotting super machine with resell price 1000$…that 9000$ doesn’t disappear. We observed many times, in various industries, people tend to “forget” costs…Common illusion is driving costs, people think car costs only fuel which is 1/3 of operating costs. No wonder, Earth has raging poverty.
Popular consumables costs per plot…Assuming wou will plot 90,000 plots, will SSD dies.
|0.034555555555556||Corsair MP600 2TB|
|0.086666666666667||Samsung 980 Pro 1TB|
|0.048297455968689||Intel Optane 900p 280GB|
add energy, your COO…there you go. Since nobody cares, we do not know exact costs for other options.
We bought rig for 400+150+600+300…Let’s say 1500…I can sell it right now for 1200…that is 300$ COO for us. Or 2-3 years later for 1000$…COO 500$. That is calculated into plot costs because it doesn’t disappear as poor think We can dream about “you know I can use PSU or 10Gg cards later”
that is the only thing we do not do. We buy large amounts of discs with 10-20% discount…If I bail out now, I profit…if I bail out 3 years later…common resale price for old discs in our area is 10-12$/TB (our average 13-15$/TB)…COO for us is about 5-7$/drive with the highest available efficiency.
Profit is in your mind, not by talking shit on Internet…feeling tuning, assumptions or attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with your truth.
SO FAR, WE HAVE HEARD SO MUCH TRUTH, BUT NOBODY PROVIDED ANY DATA FROM THEIR PLOTTING SETUP.
I have saved millions, but I do not count it in other projects Unless, you are building smoking rig/server.
Your calculation of total cost of ownership of plotters and disks is based on a very optimistic assumption about resale value of used hardware. If you use more realistic numbers there your COO will look a lot different. You are dreaming about imaginary resale value of your hardware…
You are assuming your consumer grade hardware is only losing 30% of its value in 2-3 years, but on the other hand you claim that the 10k $ someone spent (seriously?) on plotters will lose 90% of value.
If you are factoring in resale value of old Xeon servers the TCO is definitely lower than your setup based on consumer hardware.
- The hardware is significantly cheaper to begin with and it will not lose as much value as a new setup.
- Plotting is done in memory, no need for an SSD that will die.
- Energy consumption is higher, but only about 0.05$ / plot (for a dual Xeon E5-280v2)
We do not assume - that’s business in our area. We have sold two rigs, HDDs, and that’s what we have got.
I am sure full RAM plotting rig doesn’t cost 600$. Cheapest dual Xeon with 256GB costs 2000$ in our area.
Add 10Gb ether networking, at least 200$
One SSD for storing plots before you manage to upload them.
We had similar Dell dual Xeon workstation with 500Wh at full load…compared to our 170Wh currently plotting at 18min plot vs 15min.
You are making assumtions about future resale value based on hardware you sold recently. In fact I earned money selling hard drives and a plotter too, but not asume it will be the same in 2-3 years.
If you buy RAM separately it’s easy to buy a dual XEON system with 256 GB DDR3 for less than 400 $, at least in the EU / Germany. Even the newer DDR4 based systems go for < 1000$ including RAM upgrade. Could be a bit more diffucult in Switzerland, just a much smaller market…
Why does the dual Xeon need 10 GBit ethernet, but your setup does not? That doesn’t make sense. 1 GBit is good enough up to 80 plots / day. If that’s not enough Sneakernet is fast and healthy.
I’d argue 3900x + 980 pro 1 Tb on a cheap B450M motherboard is the most efficient plotting machine. You can also resell the 3900x for the same price you got it. I managed around 45 plots a day on it.
We make averages on selling stuff in last 30 years since we have built Internet for you guys Of course, that was just a theory taunting the “feeling-tuning” presented by various clueless plot operators in this amusing thread.
For us, current ROI is 5-6years per HDD without theories about HDD resale, and upgrade. Of course, that doesn’t pay the server/plotter + >10k hours of past knowledge/experience accumulation. What is in your head is the only money on this planet/most likely Universe.
And that is still risky because you never know how long HDD lasts, if the price of XCH holds. Most crypto kids dream about future of 200k BTC…same bullshit is in every human activity…we have seen it over, and over again in various industries/activities.
If you have spend 50k $ now, while earning 300$/month before costs…that is 14 years just for HW, what is for you? What sane person hopes for profit? We do not know what will be next week…month. Yet, most seems to know what will exactly happen in future ROFL
We do not sell/replace HDD unless there is something revolutionary (such as one drive replacing 2 x 18TB because of 6.5Wh savings)
PC doesn’t work without RAM. Calculating a half of PC doesn’t help much, no? It is like disk/hybrid plotting without caring about SSD costs that most seems to use there. How much is 256GB DDR3 RAM? 1000$ 512GB 1500$ ?
Copy to *.plot finished, took 939.988 sec, 110.399 MB/s avg. 1Gb usual copy speed or ~15.7min. Guys bragged about 15.5min plotting speed. It means you need either large cache to store intermediate plots (adding costs to plotting) or 10Gb ether (adding costs) since every modern HDD manages 150-220MBs or ~185MBs.