Does GPU plotting kill "and time" of PoST

Chia Plotting
#1

Proof of space? Yep, nothing to see there. But what about this “and time”? That referred to what? What the time about creating the plots themselves? What else could it be?

PoST is about 2 components. Who can elaborate about the time aspect and what it actually refers to. GPU plotting has clearly made a mockery of the exercise of plotting. To me GPU plotting has literally ripped out a big component or hurdle of the mechanism.

Said another way? Plotting to storage is nothing more than a moot point now. Yes you can slog away with old methods and live that “time” element and ensure it’s part of this.

I bring this up because it’s a head scratcher to me. I know Chia and fanboys don’t want to say Chia is PoW now. I’m not debating that. I’m just saying, is Chia forever changed by this development? Maybe Chia is going to say they knew this would always happen. Frankly speaking I don’t care how smart you think you are, the collective tech brain will and can take any technology in directions you could never see coming.

I hope we don’t get into, oh, it’s all good. The “time” is about the “time” it takes to win a block. Oh really? That’s what Chia meant? When you are talking about something that took hours and now is a matter of seconds on extremely cheap hardware? I’d say the ship is taking on water. What’s behind the next door?

So tell me. Is Chia now “proof of space and sort of time” now? So PoS and T just left town?

Plotting has become so meaningless, it’s almost bizarre. If I said, type out a 2 paragraph document and that’s part of the mechanism, that would take more time than churning out a plot. Maybe a plot can be created before you get 4 sentences into this document. My point is, there is almost no point in plotting.

I think it’s easy to forget that Chia’s PoST is unproven. As OG farmers expect more pain, changes and time wasted. Bad investments on hardware for example.

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#2

Do you even VDF bro?

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#3

Hey bro, do you have the balls to speak so people understand what you are saying or what your point is? Or I suppose you could just F off if a topic isn’t to your liking, bro?

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#4

You’re raging against something that you don’t understand and it’s hilarious. VDFs are central to how Chia works. It’s the “time” in PoST. The fact that you don’t know this makes your post all the more embarrassing.

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#5

The timelord aspect is definitely left in the skunkworks and even the farmers don’t really get involved with it. I’ve gone for a few dives on it and I still don’t understand it. It reminds me a bit of the AI push in tech right now, and chatGPT everything… kinda freaks me out honestly.

#6

You can run your own timelord on your own machine (no reward for doing so) and eventually there will be an ASIC that performs the timelord function.

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#7

You could ask 100 people about how Chia works and 99 won’t have a clue. Ask people how to plot and you will get 1,000 paths. Ask about compressed plots and you will see glazed eyes. Ask about GPU plotting and farming? Same result. If you think not understanding some aspect of Chia is “hilarious”? Then you fit the pompous A hole tag. You get that?

My main point here is that GPU plotting makes a large portion of this “mechanism” and absolute farce. You telling me that 12 months ago the Chia team said, whelp, you know what guys? Next year plot times will be about 20 seconds. You think when Bram had this all planned out, that 10 second plot times were on his mind?

I have a hard time understanding what plotting is now. What do you call it? A fart in a wind storm? The way I sum it up? Plotting is essentially a joke now. Where this put the entire “system” to me is debatable.

Bram when he came up with this, envisioned 20 second plot times did he? GPU’s may not kill “and time” but to me it makes a mockery of this proof of work system.

In closing? Let me repeat my main reply. You are clearly a pompous (pick your next word) and I’ll leave it at that. Any half-wit could tell you (not that you stoop to the common man level) that Chia is a confused mess right now and will only get more confusing with GPUs and compression coming into play.

Wow, I don’t know about timelords? Any new entrants into Chia farming are going to run into a wall. Roads with 1,000 paths are not easy to navigate. Not that you have a problem with anything. You are an elitist afterall. You know Chia’s PoST like the back of your hand.

Whatever you think about the thread title, the point is I’m calling out the farce of a 20 second plot. Is that clear enough for you? You don’t need a super computer, not even close to do it either. It’s so easy to accomplish, I’m standing by the statement that it kills a chunk of this proof of work mechanism.

And yes I’m throwing around 20 second plot and 10 second plot to have fun with this. I don’t give a rats A if it’s 40 second or 60 seconds. It ultimately makes a mockery of this. I don’t think Bram would admit whether he expected plot times to be a few minutes or not. Did he know it was possible, but expected that to cost a lot in terms of hardware, thus making it more of a rarity than the norm? Right. This was expected. Normal. Nothing to see here folks.

#8

Are you actually asking this question seriously ? I can’t stop laughing.

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#9

Yes. He specifically did. That’s why you have different K sizes and an adjustable plot filter. All of this was thought about before you came along. You really need to do some reading. That way you won’t be so utterly and hopelessly confused as you are right now.

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#10

The community is full of douchebags. I accept that. A collection of oddballs. Definitely different than ETH mining community.

#11

Ok, but we are all trying to explain that VDF does not refer to plot creation, but nonzero time after a proof. Its why you need 67% of the network, not 51%, to do an attack.

And you come back angry.

Computing a ommited bit in a table (the hellman compression) is not part of the VDF part of the signage and has no real effect on security of the network.

And multiple people explained this but you kept going off on them…

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#12

For someone who can’t be bothered to do the slighest amount of reading, you sure have a big mouth.

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#13

Case in point. Let’s call you the front man of the oddballs and douche bags. You wear it well.

As usual, you don’t have much to contribute. If you think plotting hasn’t turned into a joke then state that fact. Plotting is now a joke. That’s the point you can take from my original post. Yes, I don’t know the details of the mechanism, but barring that? My main point is that when plotting is less than 60 seconds, I call plotting a farce.

Not only is it a farce, but to think of how Chia themselves didn’t see this coming. Remember those Chia branded/marketed SSDs? Imagine that. If they saw 60 second plots a year later? What company would bother such a product? Again, point being, ask Bram and team what they think of the plotting process and how it’s nothing more than a fart in a windstorm.

It may not break “time”, but it makes a mockery of a key component of their POW system. Unless the D bags here think sure, 60 second plots? Saw that coming. That’s why most of you loud mouths spent how much on plotters, RAM and all the other nonsense when now you just need a 3060ti? Bad investments. Don’t blame me for that. But I get the bitterness.

#14

Please stop embarrassing yourself…all you need do is learn something… not even a whole lot…it’s not that hard …seriously … trust us …give it a shot!

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#15

Chia is proof of space and time, not proof of work. They just don’t want people to be able to spoof the space component, hence the effort it takes to create a plot. They always want to make sure that effort is there despite advances in technology. That’s why there are different K sizes and a configurable plot filter. It’s not my fault you are incapable of comprehending things. That’s just how you were made. Be angry at your parents or something for not passing along better genetics?

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#16

Filter and K size has F all to do with plotting. Filter size has what to do with plotting? K size? Are you saying that taking 60 seconds versus 2 minutes to make a pot is something profound? When all it really takes is a 3060 TI GPU?

I noticed that nobody really answered the question. His plotting become nothing short of a joke? Right? Nobody answered that.

I noticed that a few people have stepped in here to have something to say. Some of the so-called regulars. The community builders. The sludge of this community.

This is how I look at this. When there’s a big pile of S on the ground, what does it attract? Did attracts the flies. So some of the people are said some backhanded remarks here? The only reason you’re here is because you’re attracted to big piles of S.

If you wanted to state whether or not plotting has become a joke, be my guest. I could rename this thread, but apparently it’s attracting flies. So I leave it as a indicator to any newcomers to the community. What kind of people are around here. If anyone here is a regular, be assured, there’s somebody who paid the highest price for their hard drives and bought a whole bunch of equipment to plot fast only to realize that plotting is now become a farce. And they will have to replot everything on their farm or accept about a 30% drop in revenue.

It’s like flat earthers. Sure, there’s a bunch of you. It makes you feel almost normal. So of course there’s a few similar people in this thread. It makes you feel almost normal.

I’m going to assume that some of the people commenting here have invested copious amounts of money into RAM and server equipment. Only to realize that you could do the same and plot in 60 seconds with about a $200 rig not including the GPU. Yeah that sucks. And plus having to redo all your plots? Yeah that sucks too. So I get the bitterness.

And most certainly I could rename this this GPU plotting kill plotting. I don’t know. You tell me. 30 seconds. You probably would have to spend $5,000 to plot in 1 minute last year. So to me yes. It’s a bad look for Chia. Unless you’re an apologist and you said they expected this. Like when they announced the chia SSD, they already knew that GPUs would take over the whole thing. Yeah right.

#17

What are you mad about exactly? How has plotting become a joke and why does it matter? Does it matter if plotting time has been reduced? Nobody in this thread is bitter but you, the person who doesn’t want to learn or listen.

Perhaps you should go back to your PoS coin (ETH)?

Chia apparently is too complex for you to grasp. :rofl::rofl:

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#18

This website needs a downvote feature that would auto hide comments that are negative

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#19

You can:

  1. mute a person, and you will never hear from them again
  2. mute a thread, and you will not see such thread anymore
  3. flag a posts, and if more than one person flags it, such post will be hidden
  4. flag a thread, what leads to the whole thread to be gone
  5. appeal to administrator to review such posts, and cross your fingers

However, the simplest one (IMO) is to ignore trolls with mental diarrhea. They feed on responses, and their only job is to wait for new replies and escalate it further. I have that troll blocked for a long time, and the only thing that I see in this thread are people repeating the same thing over and over again.

I also think that flagging such posts is a very good idea, as basically the troll needs to toil to craft new garbage, but once posted it disappears on them, and potentially it hurts such troll a bit.

I would also not mind flagging this thread, as there is no value here for anyone but that troll.

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#20

No, plotting has not become a joke. I have been farming since mainnet started. I’m aware that there are a few individuals who have spent a lot of money, and a lot of time, to build systems that plot fast. A the same time the majority of people spent less money and took the time to plot slowly.

Now if a GPU makes plotting a fast an easy process, that is making Chia easier for the majority who don’t want to spend money for a fast plotter. Tell me, how is that a joke? If it doesn’t weaken security of the network, how is it a joke? The answer is, it’s not a joke.

Please take a look at your life, and those around you. There are always people who see everything as a competition. If they buy a car, they can spend tens of thousands to make the car runs the quarter mile really fast. If you do that for fun, it’s a hobby. If you have an obsession to be the fastest and get angry when someone finds a cheaper way to beat your time, then it’s called a psychological disorder. An appendix waving competition. Are you or your friends like that? I hope not.

I’m aware that before mainnet there was a time when it paid off to be able to plot really fast. But that was a gamble. There was no guarantee that XCH price would spike to $1k like it did.

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