“I see dead farms” (people)🙂

Now a days I see a lot of farmer post selling their farms even as big as petabytes! How should I explain this? Is chia farming going to nowhere? Or should I feel happy that big farms stop running and we who believe in chia future will mine more xch per day? I don’t know. Our income has decreased to half, after three years will be 1/4!
But if I look from the optimistic side, I had fun learning how to mine chia, solving system failures, setting up faster performance, constructing cooler systems for the hard drives and so on. Someone recently said that we should not expect to be rich by mining chia! But may be in future we can use this knowledge in another field?
In my opinion, after halving, the incoming chia earning came to a lower level than the outgoing electricity cost in some countries. So you have two choices: Pushing the off button or selling the farm. I doubt whether you can get back what you spent!

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I am happy love to see the netspace is going down so I can farm more! I believe in the project. But it can also be because of plot filter changes. Some people need to replot.

Compressed plots killed the Chia project to me.

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I completely agree with you. Chia project was claimed to be a green project. Now in my opinion, it is not green in fact it is red!
Everyone knows that the compressed plots caused a huge consumption of electricity. And also if you think about the farmers still running OG plots, the situation is unfair. They lose about 30 % because of not replotting to compressed plots!

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I don’t agree at all. Compressed plots use less disk space and therefore use less electricity spinning disks

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Their choice/circumstances, and it’s a lot more than 30% with the most recent compression. I have 321 TiB of raw space, but 759 TiBe of space.

I could say it’s unfair that some people have many petabytes of storage, but it’s just the way it is.

Compression is the most fun I’ve had with Chia since inception. Smaller farms make a farmer’s life sooo much better, easier and the PBs I farm now as a result of compression is a blessing :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: and it saves noise, electricity, and is much more fun to tinker with. That is all. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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If someone had 10 drives of non-compressed plots, and then went with compression, they are still spinning those 10 drives.

Now they added the power consumption of their GPU.

They have more effective plotting space, but they are powering those same 10 drives.

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Yup - but…my farm is 234.1% more profitable for a modest increase in GPU pwr
which is now image over whatever it was before.

That’s a significant increase in revenue.

W/out ‘compression’ to duplicate that - I would easily add min an add’l 1000 watts for drives alone.

157w -vs- an add’l 1000w :man_shrugging: Hummmm…

PS: Not to mention the cost of drives would be enormous compared to a simple GPU.

I took @ksevin’s meaning as overall, Chia is consuming more electricity, due to the additional GPU power draw.

Before the introduction of compressed plots, I purchased two very inexpensive Celeron based mini computers for harvesting. Those mini PCs use 7 watts of power.

To keep up with the compression option, I would have to purchase new hardware, and consume more power. The overall payoff is an incentive. But I would end up consuming more power. Ergo, less green – which I believe was @ksevin’s point.

Yes, if you did nothing / added nothing to your farm from the original, most green, PoS days, you would need some big upgrades plus use a lot more electricity.

I just think that most have gradually morphed their farms from what they had originally so the additions are incremental and worthwhile if your goal is XCH revenue.

Chia will likely follow MMX with an ‘incompressible’ format, if rumors are true. The hard fork and all… and then you and everyone will be fine right back where you started - very green.

No GPUs needed, only a bit of compute.

Already now, I use a uPC @35 watt max pwr for MMX recompute, no pwr hungry GPU needed. In fact, it’s the same uPC I bought a few yrs back for MMX, and then put on the shelf, but now back (hardly) at work again :sweat_smile:

It says a lot that the compressed plots often use less power per plot than uncompressed plots.
Chia wasn’t as “green” as originally claimed, given the power requirements for the hard drives.

In my case, I already HAVE the GPUs - left over from my Etherium/etc mining days - so the cost of adding a GPU is entirely the cost of electricity for me.

Your Celeron machines aren’t the entire power draw.
The hard drives themselves also have power draw - and usually at or somewhat more than your stated 7 watts PER DRIVE.

until someone smarter & younger comes along looks at the code then brings along faster higher powered consumer level GPUs transitioning from data centers like H100s back into the mix. Then we’re back at compressed plots, Did I hear rumor of 10GB plots down range?

I’ve learned to take profits or at least get your original investment out as quickly as possible to deploy investment capital somewhere else and watch for the pivots (i.e. IPO, hard forks, changes in variables of the token economics, Chia’s multi layered compression levels etc) and the behaviors of the executive team of these crypto projects. Folks are motivate by different things but only time will reveal that so it could be larger homes, wider yachts that travel further, faster cars, or the original spirit/principle behind crypto development, the idea of FuMoney, life changing wealth etc.

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Max is smarter and younger… with MMX being practically uncompressible. I don’t see that changing w/anything you mention put ‘in the mix’ anytime soon. And Chia will follow one day. So rest easy. In due time, all will be re-imagined and thus improved.

Just :eyes:

I can appreciate that :heavy_check_mark: :heavy_check_mark:… and no disrespect to our original core Devs plus folks that supported them on this crypto project (OG Chia DEVs, MaxPlotter via Gigahorse, DrPlotMore w/ 3090 & 4090 GPUs).

Looking ahead, the future seems poised for significant change. Over the next decade, or perhaps even w/n the next 5 years given the current inflation trends, several potential catalysts could reshape our world. These might include increased geopolitical conflicts aka WW3, another global health crisis aka plandemic, or a major technological breakthrough—possibly in the realm of more efficient energy sources aka solar storage rocks. Each of these scenarios could serve to distract from the steadily depreciating value of the U.S. dollar. The global economy is in need of a reset, which could occur through either traditional or unconventional means.

I can’t buy enough Bitcoin fast enough with what’s leftover after mortgage payments and monthly living expenses. Chia’s emissions schedule is trouble some but swapping what I do earn at least 1/5 - 1/4 over to Bitcoin seems not too unreasonable (not quite :gem: :open_hands: but close enough to reduce my risk exposure in an already risky crypto asset category).

I look forward to seeing who’s still around the water cooler after the IPO!?!

How to verify the claim that MMX is practically uncompressible? Is it open source and verified by others?

Does it even need to be uncompressible (this is not just one parameter game, as most likely right now you can have a working GPU compression if you have a 100-200 GB video card)? At the moment it kind of is economically uncompressible. Also, we all know the drill right now; therefore, the minute a compression will be feasible, we will have MMX plot format II, etc. Also, my understanding is that MMX runs with plot filter 1, further complicating eventual decompression.

By the way, right now there are 2 compressions available for MMX. One offers a max 4% or so at the expense of CPU cycles (GPU assist will come later, but still limited to 4%). The other offers around 50%, assuming that plots are on SSD / NVMe (heavy in seek operations).

As far as it being a close source, Max has stated that it will be, but at the moment he keeps it proprietary to not let NoSSD use it (or rather till CNI will get their act together).

The plot format and farmer are open source, just the plotter not yet. So you could verify things, but it’s not easy to do so.