Is there any advantage in plotting k33, k34, k35?

Hello fellow farmers, first off, stay positive, never get discouraged, and try to enjoy the grind…

Of what I understand about the plots - k32s are 256gbs of code compressed into 108.8gb.plot files… They are presently recommending to the extent of pushing making k32s. Apparently not all.plot files get made with eligible code, they can have errors so making two k32s as opposed to one k33 improves your chances of saving half the effort just incase a plot gets written with erroneous code.

Windows 10 being the “bs” I mean the OS that it is can randomly restart your pc after certain time having elapsed post update (delay updates on Windows manually to prevent a mishap mid plotting) - if that kind of a thing happens to you at 98% on a k33 it is a waste of your time, ssd read write, electricity. A surge, power outage, bsod, any number of things can result in wasted effort and resources (not to forget any rage damage keyboards, mice and computer screens are likely to experience as a result).

When they say five to ten years they are expecting adoption of faster hardware making k32 challenge too easy thereby making it obsolete for generation. I don’t think existing k32s will be discarded (they are conserving the effort and resource expenditure of proof of work model in the future).

So fundamentally there seems to be no apparent edge to generating k33s for the masses, those with cutting edge hardware can go ahead and make k33s as future proof plots while putting fail-safes in place.

I may be wrong, will appreciate more input.
Day 1 of grind: 10th May 2021

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Oh yeah wow, good point – the larger plots are much more painful to lose!

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For me, it is better disk usage - i have predominantly 3TB SAS drives that fit 27xK32 and 50GB space left - that is REALLY annoying even though its only 2-3%. I have on my todo list list an item to work out a better fit and look at K33 to see how much they can help

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Wanna know how annoying ?

/dev/sdb 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/a
/dev/sdc 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/b
/dev/sdd 2.8T 2.7T 49G 99% /mnt/c
/dev/sde 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/d
/dev/sdf 2.8T 2.7T 49G 99% /mnt/e
/dev/sdg 2.8T 2.7T 49G 99% /mnt/f
/dev/sdh 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/g
/dev/sdi 2.8T 2.6T 151G 95% /mnt/h
/dev/sdj2 2.8T 2.6T 159G 95% /mnt/i
/dev/sdk2 2.8T 2.7T 58G 98% /mnt/j
/dev/sdl2 2.8T 2.7T 58G 98% /mnt/k
/dev/sdm2 2.8T 2.7T 58G 98% /mnt/l
/dev/sdn 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/m
/dev/sdo 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/n
/dev/sdp 2.8T 2.7T 49G 99% /mnt/o
/dev/sdq 2.8T 2.7T 50G 99% /mnt/p
mergerFS 44T 43T 1022G 98% /mnt/x

That is 1022G (7 plots after i fill those 2 slots) of “lost” space

I COULD set up lots of little LVM volumes straddling drive pairs, move to ext4 and that SHOULD make space for 1 plot per disk pair - is that being OCD ? lol

At least I can then stay on K32 … hmm !

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One point is that I heard that we should not max (99.xx%+) out the HD because some reason… which makes the life of HD shorter…? cannot remember exactly

I think this refers to the endurance of your drives. When farming for a long time, there will be wear on your drives. There is a method to extend the lifetime when it fails, which requires you to leave unused space on the drive equal to the largest file on it. I will try to find the reddit post I think you are referring to and add a link if I find it.

^this is the answer your looking for

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The simple answer to your question is yes.

One K33 provides the same chance to win as two K32s.

K32s are destined to become useless. I have read guesses of from 3 to 15 years. K33s will also become useless even further down the road if Chia grows that much.

I am plotting K33s. My 2TB NVMe plotting drive can comfortably handle 3 parallel K33 plots. Yes, I could do 7 K32s, but I do not consider this a loss.

Contrary to comments I have seen, I have found that 3 parallel K33s take 12% less time than 6 parallel K32s. This is the the second best plotting speed increase I have found. The first was NVMe plotting.

With my plotting done on a 2TB NVMe as the main and a 2TB SSD as the secondary plotting drives I now complete 3 K33s every 18 hours.

I did first performance checks before the NVMe and 3 K33s were produced in 28.5 hours. At that time 6 K32s took my machine 32 hours.

So I got a performance increase when I switched to plotting K33s and I believe they hold more long term value.

Lastly, 32 K33s fit on my 8TB (yeah right) HDDs with space left for a K32, but I don’t bother.

I would plot 2 K34s, but only 15 fit on an 8TB and I would need another NVMe to have enough plotting space.

If I am still enthused when I run out of farm space I will buy HDDs appropriate to fitting K34s and upgrade my machine to start plotting them.

There is a lot of investment in K32 thinking. In my opinion, if you are in for the long haul it makes little sense to plot K32s. One K33 is produced slightly faster than two K32s and will hold its value longer.

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Good points here! I didn’t know plotting was marginally faster with K33s.

I’ve been worried about this recently actually: we keep hearing K32s will be good for another few years at least. But this is from the same people who estimated netspace growth! :rofl:

How mad would you be if Bram came out next week and said “uh guys, we are moving to K33 next month. Sorry!”

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That is interesting - once i have plotted my disk collection and start to replot (poolable) i am moving towards SAS HDD plotting and retiring my SSD to an easier life (an enhanced desktop experience) - SAS HDD tend to be larger drives (600GB, 900GB). When you plot to SAS HDD you usually run 1 plot per drive - so increasing to a K33 has no additional cost

Update:

I upgraded my NVMe to a Samsung 2TB (1.81 for real) 970 EVO Plus. Using an SSD as the secondary plotting drive I now produce 3 K33s every 17.5 hours or just over 4 K33s per day. :smiley:
This on a cheap refurbished, small form factor Optiplex 7020.

Producing 3 parallel K33s uses close to 100% of the cpu and 80% of my 32GB memory. I have all of the system fans on full time in the bios or I would probably start to burn my cpu. After careful monitoring, I now feel comfortable that it is not burning itself up, even working 24/7. Within reason, I have maxed out my hardware.

I have not run new K32 tests, but I was only able to produce 5.5 K32s/day before my upgrade. I could probably produce about 7 K32s a day now with the upgrade so I do believe I have achieved at least a 10% plotting speed increase plotting K33s vs K32s.

Plotting K33s on a budget has become a fun hobby. As the economics of Chia farming (total storage growth rate in particular) have become tougher, I am even happier with my choice to go K33 as it removes my major mid-term concern. If and when will my plots suddenly lose their value?

Enjoy and be well!

Has anyone tested if a 600GB 15K SAS drive is sufficient for plotting k=33 plots in terms of temp space requirements?

Assuming a k=33 plot requires a maximum of 521 GiB (or 559.4 GB) of free temporary space, and a 600 GB hard drive has only about 558.79 GB of real empty space, I don’t see the requirements met.

I have plotted 4 K33s on 1.81TB. I should not be able to memory wise and it makes my pc work too hard but it never actually ran out of space … which it should have.

Worst thing you could do is try and fail.

Saying that there is no advantage means you do not consider being serious with Chia on the long term… So what do you do in 5 years, possibly 10? You delete all the Tera/Petabytes you collected and start all over again? Replotting all these Exabytes will be very wasteful on energy also.

I have watched this video and he has an error in his math. In probability you can not add two independent events together. a 1/3 chance and a 1/3 chance is still a 1/3 chance with each event, the same that you can not add a 2/3 chance and a 2/3 chance ( 4/3 chance ?? ) together.

He makes no mention of 1/3rd at all. He does speak of two x2 cancelling (not adding) each other out. His explanation and diagrams were clear and to the point.

A K33 has the same chance of passing the filter but twice as much chance of winning the challenge.

A K33 has twice as much potential value as a K32.

Thanks. Like I said, something did not make sense when I watched it. I have had many argue, there was no point in making K33 plots claiming 2 k33 plots have the same chance as one k33 plot.

Not sure what you mean by 2 K33s having same value as one.

Anywaze, one K33 does have twice as much value as one K32 and it MAY have more longevity. K32s will one day be replaced and become worthless.

If you take in consideration new MadMax plotter I see that is probably happening sooner than later.

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We don’t know what the next big speed shift come this winter. It’s possible that K-32s will be doomed in the next year or two. Just saying. Nothing is written in stone!