ITS HAPPENING! Xch vs crypto market

General Chia Discussion
41

I think that last part more likely.

The drop is netspace was patch tuesday

42

It is a question of risk. I feel better storing some wealth in HDDs because they will retain resale value, whereas buying XCH risks losing everything if the value of XCH tanks. I am here because I enjoy tinkering with hardware and not because I am a financial wizard, as both of my ex-wives will attest.

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43

Or better still, have a pre-farm and live off the backs of the peasantry.

I’d have 10x more XCH now if I never farmed

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44

You must be using 1 Tb HDDs to lose money.
At 37 cents per kWh and 27 USD per XCH I am still in the profitable with my farm. What did you base your calculations on?

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45

1 Tb at 12.5 USD will take 1000 days to pay for itself in chia at current rates (without even considering power costs). So yeah, actually very mutually exclusive. Buying HDDs now is just stupid when you can buy 3 XCH for each 10 Tb. (2 after recent surge).

There is no scenario where expanding a farm now will be more profitable in the future than using the money to buy XCH instead. Unless you are into tax evasions and want to remain anonymous.

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46

You are using current ( or recent past) prices to state as fact something that has not yet occured. XCH could be any price in the future from $0 to $100,000 or ???. If you are a time traveler from the future :bowing_man:, with fore knowledge of things yet to come, please state this so you are believable. And thank you for the info if you are, will save all of us a lot of time, effort, and cost :laughing:

47

Tax what Tax?? I need to find some free hard disks.

48

You forgot cost of hardware and unlike many here I have always been concerned with ROI.

You may still be profitable but nobody except the earliest adopters made ROI. If you started farming now what would your expectation of ROI be? How many years do you think it will take to pay of your investment, let alone make a return?

I think there are many better investments then farming XCH in the vain hope that Chia will perform like Bitcoin in the long term and be worth huge money.

Hardware, electricity, and diminishing return show me that farming XCH is a bad idea. I would not buy XCH either now, but investing in the coin itself makes much more sense than farming it.

49

Here’s a scenario: Take $100,000 and buy everything needed to plot and farm. A rather large farm. Crank it up for 6 months. Earn coin after coin. Shut it down and sell everything for almost what you paid for it. Walk away with all that XCH with almost zero invested.

That is just one scenario off the top of my head. If I can come up with one that quickly, I’m positive there are 20 more that are better. You shouldn’t speak so “all knowing” about something when you are so far off.

As @mr-biz mentioned, when building a farm, you still have the hardware. You still have value in the farm itself. You can liquidate it or use it for other projects. Building a farm is not just waisted money. If XCH goes to zero and all you did was buy XCH, you have nothing. But if you farmed it, you still have the hardware and the knowledge you gained from building it.

I think the best advice would be to do both. Farm and buy.

50

Nobody can farm over 2000 XCH in six months with $100,000 in hardware.

Coming up with dreams is easy.

51

I don’t understand the statement. Why would you have to farm 2000 XCH?

52

To make back your investment of $100,000 at a hopeful $50/XCH.

I guess I don’t believe that you could sell your hardware at anything but a loss. At best you could hope to get 60 cents back on every dollar invested.

How many XCH do you think you could earn in six months if you bought $100,000 in hardware today and started plotting? Will this be enough to offset the $40,000 hardware loss? You have not accounted for required space and electricity either.

It is not a plan, it is a bad dream.

I stopped posting here because I have nothing good to say anymore about crypto or XCH and did not want to become a troll. I am going to stop posting again and go back under my bridge.

Be well!

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53

I see how quickly you rethought what you were saying (editing your comment, a couple times, to include more information). That is exactly what my point is. There is more to farming vs buying than just “I can buy this much with it instead of farming”.

It’s not a plan, it’s a scenario. Is it a 100% winning scenario? Maybe not. But is it a better scenario for some, Maybe. What if you had a project that requires all that hardware but isn’t going to be live for another 6 months? In that scenario you could buy the equipment now, plot and farm, earn XCH and then just pass the hardware on to the intended project with zero loss in value. What I’m saying is that there are scenarios. And saying there is no scenario that farming is more profitable is limited thinking.

I understand that. And I’m sure you know that past experiences cloud and shade current views on things. Making it almost impossible to see the reality of a situation or even try to understand other people view of it. I appreciate that you try. I believe over the next 4 years Chia will make you rethink your position. Either way, I wish you good fortune.

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54

Crypto isn’t for everyone.
Some are happier holding fiat where the dilution to come is unknown.
Each to their own.

55

You can definitely buy XCH and HDD too, nothing prevents you from doing that, you’re talking out of your ass

Buying tangible assets to put in a local business doesn’t help you evade tax in any way, this is completely illogical

56

The drives can last more than 20 years, it’s the people who want quick and easy money who give up, not the serious business people. Unfortunately this forum has gone into the toilet as all the good miners have left, and you can’t have any good conversations here anymore, it’s such a shame!

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57

Farming vs buying, it’s funny how this always get’s such a heated debate.

Let’s assume I buy a 18TB hdd today, For me that would be 285,- Euro
Running it for 10 years will cost about 150,- euro in electricity (0,28/KWh) So 435 Euro for 10 years

For this same money I can buy 9.5 XCH

So the question then becomes: How many XCH will that hdd produce in it’s lifetime?

The problem here is that we don’t know how the difficulty will be over the next x years, so no way to predict how much XCH 18TB will bring you. At the moment it will do about 2.3 XCH per year. BUT, we are only 1.5-2 years away from first halving. BUT2 we also don’t know what transaction fees will bring for farmer revenue in the future.

So basically it’s a guessing game to figure out what a 18TB hdd will bring you. Some may also disagree with the 10year lifespan as well but I think for just farming and taking good care of them I think it is reasonable.

So what will bring more revenue? We don’t know. But even though @mehdital was a bit unnuanced in his statement, there is at this price point a good argument to make for Buying vs farming.

Few other aspects.

  • Risk: If XCH fails completely hdd’s will be worth a lot more.
  • Tax reasons. Depending on where you live, there can be different Tax rules for farming vs buying. In Holland for instance you can deduct the cost of the hardware from you profits.
    -Personal feeling. If I have a farmer with harddisks, I don’t worry too much about the XCH price from moment to moment. When I buy XCH and it drops 10% the next day I feel shit :rofl:

Another scenario would be to calculate the situation if you use the HDD’s for something like 2 or 5 years and then sell it again.

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58

Hey, You just bought yourself a 18TB drive and didn’t get one for me.

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59

7-format2020
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60

You’d be lucky to get 80000 for reselling. Why not use that lost 20k to just buy and hold XCH? You’d definitely get much more XCH than you would farm.