MadMax getting his hands on your money without your control

With this new version of MadMax my farm seems to work just for him. A very large percentage of my blocks go to MadMax. I have always been a defender of your ideas and projects but today I feel in my pocket that my choices were wrong. How long will CHIA allow third parties to get their hands on farmers’ money without any control? I think it’s fair to pay a fee for using his plotter but I currently have no control over what is being charged and practically all my blocks are going to him. I’m not in favor of the nossd system either and I thought it wouldn’t work for me because I wouldn’t receive my blocks, even though some people say they earn more. However, I’m going through practically the same thing with GigaHorse and earning less than I would at nossd. Everyone can judge what they think is fair or not but for me this is out of control and CHIA seems to allow this to happen to its farmers. I eagerly await a fair solution from the CHIA team. I also hope that the fees from these third parties are open so that farmers are aware of what they are being charged and for this to happen these fees need to be charged outside of anonymity in a transparent manner. I leave my dissatisfaction here and I believe that I share the feelings of other farmers who are also feeling harmed.


Euhmm…you are free to use gigahorse…or not.
Has nothing to do with Chia.

The Gigahorse fee is .25 xch 1 in every 4 blocks.
It’s random so you just had a run of bad luck that’s all.

Chip 22 is coming out soon, Though im not sure if that will take the randomness out of the fee completely.


Why CHIA must help you ? They have their plotter, you choose to farm with other plotter… so it’s your problem.


This happened because you chose that route, no good blaming others, you made this happen.


It was YOUR choice & YOUR choice alone to use MM / GH for your farming. CHIA had nothing to do with that choice of YOURS. Accept responsibility for YOUR choices & make your best decisions with what is YOUR responsibility. Just farm with CHIA if you don’t like the fees third parties charge for using their software.


The problem with Mad Maxx is that you can see how much he charges you, even if he removes the randomness you will complain at some point. If you are new in crypto mining, just be aware that if you use any other miner for GPU, CPU, bibidi bady bi bu, they all will charge you, but you don’t see it or even you forget about the fee, even they can be mining for hours in their favor and you will not be aware, so, just relax an enjoy a finger in your…. Ride…


And I say to myself that I haven’t hit a fee for almost a year :-))


@AllanMusk Have you tried to check with @madMAx43v3r what happened on your end? I doubt that Max is in the business of trying to defraud GH farmers, and he will be happy to look at your case and if there were real problems make you whole and maybe fix a bug (if there is one) in how his fees are collected.

Maybe, you just had a bad luck (maybe due to having multiple farmers?). For sure it stings. However, you don’t complain about randomness of your chia wins, though.

Maybe based on the feedback like yours Max could do some adjustment to how fees are collected (e.g., collect all the 0.25 and redistribute those from his server side removing the randomness).

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I liked your comment and will look for a way to contact him. I apologize if the way I wrote bothered anyone, but in the last 8 blocks I broke from CHIA, 6 went to MadMax. It’s very easy to come here and say that I’m to blame for choosing GigaHorse but all of this is only allowed because CHIA let it happen but I believe that with CHIP22 things tend to improve.
I admire MadMax’s work and I really defended his projects and ideas in debates with my friends, but at the moment I’m bothered by this high number of blocks I lost to him.

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No worries.

If this is a real issue, we will have GH v27 most likely tomorrow. :slight_smile:

If this is not a real issue (just a bad luck), maybe there is a way to have Max remove randomness from collecting fee process. He is basically the only one that knows what the reasons were to have it like that and whether eliminating randomness is possible. I would also prefer to not have randomness there, if possible. (I also use GH.)

As far as Chip22, I would not put much hope behind that. Basically, after 3 years in production and almost $70m spent, Chia didn’t bother to provide a proper architecture for pluggable harvesters (the way that did it for pools) and that was mentioned also on this forum long, long time ago.

The main reason that Chia is in rush to push it right now is most likely the fact that NoSSD controls about 30% of netspace, and based on that they could run majority attack on the network (if they decided to do it). If there is still any hope of going IPO on Chia’s side, this is more or less the good enough of a killer of it.

If you want to ping Max, you have his handle in my previous post. As you started it here, maybe the best would be to finish it here (even if you decide to PM him), just to put this thread to rest.

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Thank you Jacek for responding constructively! I’ll ping MadMax here. @madMAx43v3r

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Stop banging that drum, you let it happen, your not a victim, you installed 3rd party software.

You show an 8 day range, you are winning daily, so what is the situation since you started using GH, that is the real long term measure? You could just be having a bad run.

When I look on Foxy pool some farmers are over paying, some are under paying (me included), but that’s only based on the last X amount of blocks (I don’t have time to find out what X is).

I know Max looked at multiple options, and due to the way CNI (Chia) designed the software, this was the only way he could find that wasn’t easy to cheat, as there is a minority who would try and cheat the system.

Taking all the 0.25 farmer reward then returning the change from the fee sounds a good idea, but I bet there was a reason it couldn’t be implemented.

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The current solution is to have that randomness being done on the farmer (every time block is won, a 4-sided dice is rolled, and if it matches 4 that .25 goes to Max). So, the farmer has capability to decide which way to distribute that part of block. Or when a block is submitted a dice is rolled and either farmer’s or Max’s wallet address is attached to the block (maybe this is more likely).

If that assumption is correct, another way that would potentially work exactly the same way but remove randomness would be to have all wins go to Max and having his server do predictive payback (send back 3x 0.25). As stated before, not sure if this is doable, but maybe worth to look at. The difference is that the current solution doesn’t require anything to be run on Max’s server.

Looks like that randomness makes a lot of people uncomfortable for whatever reason. If there would be a way to use the existing mechanism and remove that randomness it would make that friction go away.

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Odd how you didn’t quote my second paragraph isn’t it, where I actually agree with what was said, yet you repeat that as if I didn’t know.

I also agree that the randomness doesn’t work for small farmers, it could take a very long time to even out.


Ok now I want an extra pretzel with my beer, at lunch!!!

I really don’t want to fight with you.

All hinges on that statement you wrote. We don’t know whether the bolded text is true but you wrote it like a gospel. As mentioned, I am also not sure if what I wrote is feasible, only asking him to review it.

Bottom line Max’s honeymoon should be over and he needs to get back to programming!!! Ya’ll need to buy me a beer :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :beer: :pretzel:


Really! How does the text you quoted mean I wrote it as if its gospel, if you actually read what I wrote and you quoted, it in no way implies its fact - bets can be won or lost.

If you followed Max’s Discord, then you’d know this fee thing has been done to deaf, which is probably why he hasn’t replied here.

If people don’t like it, don’t use it, it is as simple as that.

I think that you misunderstood what I wrote.

You are mixing up feasibility (having a solution without the randomness, e.g., NoSSD) with convenience (running the code only on the client side (GH), vs. on the server (NoSSD)). Both solutions are capable to inject itself into the payment process. It was Max’s decision to run his code 100% on the client (convenience) as he treaded running the pool efforts for maintaining the up-to-date farmer / node. I am also not saying that one solution is better than the other as far as payments go.

What I was suggesting was a hybrid model that would capture all those 0.25 XCH (instead of every fourth) and run a super tiny “pool” on the server side to distribute 3 of 4 of those captured payments back to clients. (One problem with that is the current mempool flood issue with the fee structure, what could be a killer of such solution. I don’t know how pools are avoiding it when distributing earnings (most likely a special payment protocol for pools).)

Again, I don’t know ramifications that Max is going with, and am not saying that this hybrid solution is being trivial or feasible. However, it may be worth to look into (as for instance I am kind of sick of people that whine every other day that GH is a scam, as they don’t quite understand what randomness means).

If you recall, I am also GH team, so in no way am trying to imply that the current solution doesn’t work or is bad. However, it is maybe too complicated for some people to understand. That’s it.