Magic is reel my neighbor is a warewulf

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I think I know what your talking about and this won’t work on our pool :smiley: But yes there are bugs and exploits with the reference pool protocol (some are currently being patched) and I’m sure there’s even more with pools not using pool plots.

There’s a lot of exploits that were used on ETH pools a while ago that most pools fixed and some of the same are present on the first Chia pools.

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Sure, feel free to test and let us know if there’s any bugs. We’re flexpool. Currently we’re in closed beta so you’d have to tag chris2 in the chia channel of our discord to be invited. https://discord.gg/pqMuTZes

Dont forget that fooling the farmer or the Gui doesnt help you much when it comes to winning on the actual blockchain.

So far ppl have only been able to cheat on pools.
Some initial exploits and bugs aside, I suspect the new protocol will allow very little cheating once it’s been running a while

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The blockchain cannot be cheated, but the protocol allows several cheats that pools must be prepared for.

The pool reference leaks in some aspects that, if they are not implemented in the right way, can drive to allow some kind of cheats.

Sounds to me like you want to cheat en masse but appear to be honest .

Pls don’t fish here hoping ppl will explain exploits to you.

1325

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From what little you’ve let on, I guess you have multiple harvesters operating on the same plots. Guess this can be achieved with some moderately clever container/VM setup, or network drives if you don’t mind the latency hit.

I can see how that would cut down the expected time to win displayed in the GUI/CLI, but as others here I doubt that would actually fool the Chia protocol. In case of a win you’d be submitting the same exact proof multiple times, but I think you’d only be rewarded once for that.

As for pools, indeed I guess it’s up to the pool implementation to avoid rewarding the same exact proof more than once. Would be interesting to hear from pool operators how this is handled.

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Each partial includes unique information of the proof, so it can be easily checked for double farming duplicated partials. In fact it is already handled in the reference pool (but in a way that is not production-ready).

I can say that, at least for our pool, it is covered correctly (and not using the pool reference code) :ok_hand:

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ok so far… but Have you really won ( not on pools but on the actual farmer / harvester)? I mean… i dont fully believe in statistics that the app might tell me. So far if your “expected” time to win has been cut in half…is it ACTUALLY giving you any rewards?

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This! With 20 more chrs

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so tiny i cant see it…

Sounds more like you have erroneous config that’s resulting in inaccurate calculation results for expected time to win. It’s more likely that the TTW calculator assumes error free configuration and doesn’t check the total plot count for duplicates.

Now as others have said, if you’re actually increasing your actual win frequency without adding plots, yeah you’ve found a bug and may be exploiting it. But you haven’t indicated that.

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So go and let the devs know so they can fix it if it is an issue.

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I’m not usually too sceptical but this is either:
-someone fishing for an exploit which seems foolish and unlikely to succeed here.
-someone who thinks they have an exploit but is only fooling their client and maybe the clients of unofficial pools, which we’ve known about for some time and is the reason why Hpool’s payouts, even given their extortionate fees, haven’t matched their expected block rewards, because the blockchain doesn’t reward double/fake farming.
-someone who has a genuine bug and is exploting it but feels guilty and wants to fess up here. Plausible but the right course of action is contact chia and get it fixed. You never know they might reward someone who can now save them a lot of trouble later, either by issuing some XCH or letting them keeping some/most of their (accidentally?) cheated earnings.

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If this is what I think it is, I don’t believe that it is anything more than a parlor trick. To test this, I changed the configuration of my harvesters but made no change to the number of plots or storage space. This is the output from ‘chia farm summary’:

Before:

Plot count for all harvesters: 1355
Total size of plots: 134.120 TiB
Estimated network space: 32.121 EiB
Expected time to win: 1 month and 3 weeks

After:

Plot count for all harvesters: 1572
Total size of plots: 155.600 TiB
Estimated network space: 32.092 EiB
Expected time to win: 1 month and 2 weeks

I’m not going to win any sooner because I still only have 1355 plots. But the reported numbers look better. I purposely tested this with OG plots because I am not looking to cheat a pool. I really would be surprised if any pool were fool by this anyway.

Your plots still have to find the proof so no extra value for solo farming. I could see how a pool might think you are contributing more than you are, but not that front end value you see isn’t super important or even accurate most of the time.

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Partial proofs for the pool are the same algorithm as real proofs for the chain, just at lower difficulty. If the pool can’t tell that you submitted three copies of the same proof because you’re harvesting the same plot in three pids, That’s a bug on their side that they ought to fix

The cheating part, somebody may come know on your door one day, for sure. Why? I explain.


For simplicity reason, I cut this down to minimum:
Now imagine that, there are 5 blocks total to be found and only 2 farmers farming on them, you and me, each with 500ish plots.
In the end, if all 5 blocks found by you and 0 for me.
This is the same if we both are on a pool too.
If all is well, we each should get 49% shares. With what you are doing now, I might get 5% shares, all the rest going to you. Only the pool itself is not effected, either way shares go, it just takes the 1% fee.


How do you think I would feel there? Just think about that for a second.


Now instead of coming over to your place for a fight (No, I’m not a person who does physical harm to anyone!), I send the cops over to your place for a detailed investigation.


Now, back to the argument. We are all in crypto world, adults managing their own individual living, I will NOT send anyone over to your place. But, someone, some day, might. Just be careful, we never know.

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Great, but apparently you haven’t found any blocks with your “exploit”.

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tis very true… its only ben 24 hours tho