Just asking for advice. I got 7x 10tb drives for a good price. Didnt plan to expand my 260TB farm, but yeah, could not resist not to buy
I was reading for the compressed plots and now thinking of should i plot those drives now or wait for the compressed plots to come out? As i understand, there are no release date yet?
I would wait
Max’s compressed plotter should come out fairly soon.
Chia said for their version about 4 weeks (add grain of salt)
I’m not waiting. If history is any indication of their timelines, it will be a while. Just look at how long it took to get pooling out. You can be benefiting from that space gradually over the next month. Then when they actually do come out with the new plotter, just begin replacing like you will with all the rest. That’s my plan. Then if they do take 3 months to release the new format, you aren’t sitting around getting pissed.
Seagate and WD is about to release 22-24TB drives. 10TB is for tourists…best price/watt/space is currently 18TB if you can get one for <15$/TB
compressed plots official release will take months, and it is still optional. Not to mention, there is not much difference anyway…based on the first spreadsheet supplied. Level 3 may be interesting, but costs to replot may be an economical issue.
if you can plot efficiently <0.05$/plot, each plot is around 2 months to repay.
I wouldn’t bother about 10TB nor compressed plots…especially, if you have just 260TB
It had been 2 weeks since the announcement but i don’t know if they even are already in beta or not on testnet ?
We don’t have a date for madmax release either but we know madmax release would be way more complete than initial release of Chia (gpu farming, more level of compression)
Max is now working on Chia release. As he has MMX release already, both plotter & farmer… there is minor change needed to adopt for Chia. It is imminent I would speculate. Whereas Chia’s own release (that works right, and only maybe as good as Max’s) is anybody’s guess away…months? My est. is based on how prior releases of say, BladeBit, took to be any good…read…quite some time.
Need not remind anyone that the ‘released’ BladBit had never been tested on Windows, just for starters. Pathetic, because a friend and I discovered it just didn’t work on Windows and brought it up to Harold to his surprise (?!).
Well, another way of looking at that announcement is that it was rather a corporate backstab by chia at the competitor by announcing a vaporware.
Earlier they announced that they will be coming with the compressed plots in Q3, and that was a good announcement. However, the latest announcement about plotter being there brings zero value to the time table, but somehow correlates with what Max is doing.
I would start plotting new drives right away, and then do a second round of plotting when compression is available.
I think that Max will prioritize his own chain before Chia. And it could be a while before the official implementation or competitors to Max will arrive (but it will be worth it).
Regular replotting is expected as PoST is a relatively new consensus and will elvove very rapidly. Remember when not even 2 years ago, we were plotting in 4 hours?
Some of us hobbyists are still plotting at 4 hours lol
I’ll compressed the entire farm, so I’m not going to buy new drives until that effort is completed. It’ll keep me busy for a month or two.
The chia team has to create a new farmer/harvester package that can handle all combos of OG, OP, compression levels 0-7. Validating these new packages will take time.
I think that this statement may require some clarification.
Of course, Max has to prioritize his own bc. However, the core components (plotter and harvester) are mostly shared code (if you check code differences between chia plotter and Chives or MMX, it boils down to about 10-20 lines of code where half is just handling of chain selection and naming of those plots). So, it may be that from this perspective, the chia version was ready and tested on day one. My understanding is that the only difference is the payment part for Chia’s bc. Seeing how Max works, I doubt that this is really a big task for him, as he already did the whole bc implementation.
On the other hand, the plotter is still kind of in beta, as new features, enhancements and fixes are being added basically daily. Currently, MMX has not that many users, and most are dedicated to the chain, so that is a perfect ground to get feedback and beef it up (comparing to releasing it for Chia that has ~100k farmers). My take is that this may be the main reason there is no Chia version.
Not sure, but if I recall it right, it was already mentioned in one post that Max is running chia version on Flex Pool for quite some time (for himself to test it).
I’m still plotting. One, because I remember it felt like an eternity from announcement to release of pooling. Two it looks like with a GPU the time and effort to replot with compressed plots will be much lower anyway, and three because I’m really curious how many more TBW I can punish my plotting drive with before it melts.
If he’s plotting and farming Chia with his own software, he has a big competitive advantage and makes Chia for a lower cost than most of us. It’s counterproductive to expedite the software release - even with fees.
I also believe that Max is trying to increase his paycheck, notably by launching his own chain. Therefore it’s also counterproductive to release software that would increase the capacity of Chia, before launching it for his own chain.
I think that this is a bit harsh statement.
Max is a really gifted software engineer, and he makes living by producing top notch code. Please, take a look at his donation addresses and see how much he gained from MM plotter he released about 2 years ago. Also, he continues to keep that code open-source, and is still updating it with further optimization.
At some point, software devs also have to buy some bread for their family, so I am really not sure why people feel more or less entitled to have those people work for free for them.
Also, he mentioned that he got the GPU plotter mid 2021. I am not sure whether he contacted Chia at that time, maybe. However, we know that before deciding to go out with this plotter (also with compression) he was in talks with Chia to have them buy the rights. It looks like Chia dragged him through the mud and left him dry when they felt that maybe Harold will come up with something. So, most likely, there would be no such drama, if Chia would have acted as a true Silicon Valley company and bought the rights. Maybe right after NoSSD announcement we would be already using chia’s official code with Max’s part for harvester. Please, don’t forget that Chia got $70m from VCs to do exactly such things, to remove potential competition from the field. Instead of that, they gave him basically a two-week worth of salary and started bragging how generous they are.
I don’t think it’s harsh to say that Max wants to get paid. I fully agree with you that he needs to get paid for his contributions, and I actually answered this in his gigahorse thread here : I support his work and I will be using his plotter/farmer.
What I fail to understand is the utility of the MMX chain. I don’t see why a farmer should contribute his hardware to secure a blockchain that doesn’t provide much additional utility.
I understand that the first miners of MMX (just like the first miners of Chia) will make profit by selling their production for a high price, based on buyers anticipations of success. I also understand that Max will be one of the first miners of his own blockchain, and stands to make a nice bonus to his payday with it. I just don’t understand why I should replot for his chain, instead of staying on Chia, since it’s going to underperform Chia.
I get that Max is mad that he didn’t get paid before, but the farmers aren’t to blame, so this feels like misplaced bitterness towards farmers who didn’t do anything to wrong him. I can’t blame him for launching a new blockchain tho, he’s trying to innovate and contribute more, props to him - I certainly don’t have the technical ability to do what he does.
I’m happy to see that he actually released his software last night :
So I’m actually (at least partially) wrong
I think that overall we are on the same page. We differ on what value MMX or Chia brings to the table, but that is OK (at least for me), no need to revive this topic.
I agree with your another statement that this forum is leaning toward being a cesspool. However, part of that is our own inaction. We (users) could chase those trolls out and put some more stringent rules of conduct. I did ask for help in getting rid of the most vicious attacks during the NoSSD drama, but actually no one was interested to do anything about it. So, I gave up. (As I said, only two flags are required to kill a post. However, it goes both ways, as during that NoSSD exchanges, some ardent chia gods follower hijaked that thread by suspending it for few days.)
Saying that, as you have noticed, most of us are oversensitivised, and react too easily. This time it was me, as I read too much into what you wrote, sorry for that.
Although, I still would not use the language you used. I don’t think that stating that Max “is trying to increase his paycheck” is a proper phrase, especially in the context of various attacks on him in this forum. He is rather “trying to get paid for the hard work that he is doing for this community.” At least, I would phrase it like that and from your response, this is most likely exactly what your thoughs were.
Also, I think that your comment about how MMX works may not be right. There is no pre-farm there, so each of the farmers (including Max) will “earn” as much as they put into their HDs. Yes, when blocks are earned, part of that earnings will go to Max, or rather I think MMX Dev account to pay devs that contribute to improving the ecosystem (think about all those devs that abandoned actually quite good Chia tools). At least, this is my read of MMX, and again it may not be correct.
Also, I don’t think that Max “is mad that he didn’t get paid before.” I don’t think he is that type of a person (but I may be wrong, I don’t know him personally), neither it works that way (when someone joins and has no credibility, basically has to earn the rights to be paid, and this is what he did). We know that he did engage with Chia to have them purchase his code, thus making it open source, but we have no details about it (and I don’t think any details are needed). The deal fell apart in the same way as NoSSD but with less drama, as this time there were no brain-dead twitter attacks from Chia, neither engagements in contract negotiations in public forums by their employees. At the end, we farmers got hurt and are going through the current nonsense, as yet another time Chia didn’t deliver (IMO), and potentially turned off one of the best devs that they could have on this ecosystem.
So, take care my friend, we are good.
So I see your on lunch break again from pushing that mop. Are you really trying to compete with the other bone heads out here that love to just type crap to read what they wrote. Be glad this isn’t 40 years ago, because you would be in the river already. Be careful when you go to the store there maybe other crazy’s out there.
Most people have never heard of Linux.
Most people use the computers that they have, and those computers are mostly Windows based.
Most people do not have a spare computer to run Linux, for plotting.
Most people do not know that you can create a boot drive to run Linux, without disturbing the installed Windows OS.
Not everyone is in a mad rush to churn out endless plots.
Many people have a dozen or so hard drives, and if takes an extra day or two to complete their plotting, it will not matter. Their estimated time to win for their size farm will not change by more than a few hours – perhaps less, when their last two or three drives are plotted.
Most people do not know that such distros exist.
Nearly no one outside of my professional life has ever heard of Linux, other than if I brought it to their attention.
People buy computers, and those computers come with Windows pre-installed. To those people, Windows = All-things-computer. To those people, Windows and Computers are synonymous.
Reality is not all lollipops and roses.
Visit Best Buy, or Micro Center, or Walmart, or Costco, or PC Richard & Sons, etc, and you will see zero Linux systems for sale. Perhaps there might be an exception.
That IT professionals run their data centers with UNIX / Linux based operating systems, does not translate to the general public knowing any of that.
Every computer ever sold has a command line terminal (or emulator equivalent).
Ask 100 random Windows users what the command prompt is, and perhaps 2 or 3 might have heard of it. I could be off. But I think my estimate is probably close.
The world listens to digital music, by the billions.
We stream, we play CDs, we play mp3, flac, wav, etc files.
How many people know that every digital set-up that plays music has a built-in transport?
Every computer on the internet uses DNS.
Ask 100 random internet users what DNS is, and perhaps 1 might know.
Every computer on the planet uses a file system.
Ask 100 random people to name a file system, and perhaps 1 might know.
You are basing your view of other’s grasp of technology via your own grasp of technology.