So I asked Bram Cohen 'what TF is going on' ..and he responded

I just straight up asked Bram on Twitter ‘what TF’ is up with people calling the reward system a lottery. And he was gracious enough to respond with a long thread.

“(…) Seeing as how the first transaction only happened earlier this month our timeline is extremely accelerated, but people are still vitriolic about how it’s taking a whole month (…) To fix the problem we’re scrambling to get pooling protocol out, which won’t change the expected returns but will reduce their volatility”

There’s more,
You can read his entire Twitter thread here:

Cheers

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Just mused on that pooling thing here

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Good job!
His argument is perfectly valid as long as you believe that they were really caught off guard by the massive growth. I think they were. Some people might argue that they should have seen it coming but with 20:20 hindsight this is always easy.

The thing he really did wrong was saying in the livestream at market opening that they hoped to have it finished in like 2 weeks. If I remember correctly he even said something like hopefully by next Sunday.
This created the idea that they were basically at the “dotting i’s, crossing t’s” stage and then any delay becomes annoying. If he would have just said back then what he says now in the response to you, there would be a lot less people giving him a hard time about it.

Something about managing expectations :laughing:

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This is not directed at anyone in this thread, this is just where I guess I’m posting my mini-rant. lol

For me the point that is completely lost amongst the noise is this, and it’s extremely important and simple to grasp.

The Chia team owes you NOTHING. Zero. Zilch.

They birthed this project as is. You have chosen to participate in a very new concept with zero promises of getting rich yet so many people are irate because WHEN LAMBO!?!?!

The team has been 100% transparent and clearly were caught off guard by the popularity and resulting growth. They also clearly had no idea that XCH would debut at the price it did. I think most of us that were waiting in antici…pation were optimistically thinking $100 tops. Both of these factors are beyond the team’s control and again, they owe you nothing.

You either believe in the long term viability and benefits of this project or you don’t. The devs owe you nothing. This isn’t Robinhood, this is a legitimate project led by some heavy hitters. It’s easy to sit back and complain, it’s hard to contribute to make things better. That requires more than going into CC debt to clean out BB of all the Easystore drives and running a client on your PC.

If all you want out of this is your lambo, then I suggest that there are better projects out there for you to support and better ways to make a quick buck.

SlothtechTV made a great point, if you get nothing more than new knowledge out of this experience then it is well worth it. Personally it forced me to learn Linux, how HBA cards work, how to format cheap 10k Netapp drives from 520 to 512, how to create RAID arrays in Linux, and all sorts of other cool stuff that I probably would have never learned had I not been forced to. I want to thank Sloth for this. I wish everyone on youtube had content as helpful and easy to understand as his.

All that being said, the Chia team still owes you nothing. Accept that. Adapt and overcome or just move on.

TLDR: Nobody owes you a lambo, stop complaining.

That felt good to get out :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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True story. Still, they ‘owe’ every hardware volunteer reasonable and satisfactory explanations of what it is they’re (going to be) doing.

Nobody willingly signed up for an uncharted plotting safari and some farm land near the event horizon of a super massive black hole.

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Have they not been transparent?

The only thing they owe anyone is to themselves; to be good stewards of their project so people will want to participate. If they aren’t doing that to your satisfaction then support another project. It’s none of their concern if people acted irrationally in support of their own personal goals and things are now not going as they expected.

Not everything is GameStop and this isn’t the stock market.

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Full ack. I just got some random words here to get past 10 char limit.

Bram didn’t seem to come off very well in his latest interview on the son of a tech channel judging by the comments i saw. bit of a pr disaster by the look of it to me. I imagine he doesn’t really care.

This was in relation to the pre-farm not pooling Bram Cohen Responds To Chia Pre-Farm Concerns - YouTube

Some remarks. I agree 100% that The Chia team owes you NOTHING, and they have always been very transparent in everything, I won’t repeat the arguments supporting that.

About not launching with pooling, not their fault at all. If you were there the first month it looked like it would be something like farming for a year at difficulty <100 with a coin price of $2. Then someone got crazy in China about Chia and everything went suddenly nuts. They have been more than three years in development, they cannot be accused of rushing out to market. The network managed to scale to 100K+ nodes in no time with only minor incidents that were resolved pretty much instantly.

Due to this sudden success they are now pretty pressured to go ahead with the business plan and scaling development to get out earlier than expected a lot of functionality.

They are under a great pressure and deserve a little patience and support from our side.

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Who said they do? Same as us farmers don’t owe them anything.

Does that mean we all have to " Sois belle et tais-toi"? Of course not. Enjoying a game does not mean you can’t critique the publisher.

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Right on man. If people want to short term speculate they can buy some Dubaicoin. If they are more about backing and supporting Chia which might end up being the “winning” crypto currency in the long run, then lets plot and farm at a rate and cost that you can afford, and hope that Chia grows in value, over the long term. Moaning at this stage might be like complaining that bitcoin got a bit tricky to mine, 4 weeks into its existence, imagine being back there then. My thought is that I missed out on bitcoin (well I bought 4 BTC then sold it making a profit, just a lot less than I could have made) so I want to get some XCH in my wallet, and I am going to learn a bunch about servers by setting 2-3 up and running them. If it all goes south I’ll sell my servers and chalk it up to experience.

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I think this sentiment is exactly as important as “they don’t owe us anything.” For example, some feel like going to HPOOL is “disloyal” or it will “hurt” the project. These are weasel words. Everybody should look out for themselves and their own ROI and not expect anything different from everybody else. If the project can’t survive that, then it can’t survive human interest anyway. :sunglasses:

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Straight out of the official Beginners Guide:

The Chia software is designed to work on a lottery system. A key element to winning the lottery of earning coins is that the more plots you have, the more proofs you have, and therefore the higher chances of winning.

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Just being a bit of a devils advocate here: By the same logic, we owe Chia nothing and we should all sign up to hpool?

Sure why not? It’s basically a personal security risk. As explained by the Chia team, it’s not a 51% risk.

Aye but they didn’t “do” the black hole. And it wasn’t there when the thing started.

And they DID say quite a few times: hey look don’t go buying a bunch of new hardware immediately; use what you have to hand.

I happen to have a standby 72TB array in one box just to hand. I’m not going to burn through SSDs just to plot it so my plotting is more plodding. Every time my TTW drops by another month; it goes up by another month cos the net space is vastly outperforming my plot speed.

Even if I “win” a coin and can just add another 12 drive array in (before say September); even doubling my farm size would not double my chances.

Unless Chia coin goes up to $2000+ and keeps doing so it just won’t be worth the effort and it won’t be any fun (part of my reason for giving it a go).

I have high storage for video work we do. I can always repurpose them dense arrays for that (the 72TB will be needed by end of 2021 for sure). So I’m not losing a thing by having that go.

But it’s definitely not working as expected or intended. It certainly won’t be green if the only way to “win” is to plot perpetually. That’s just burning more resources than even BC; because dead hardware fried on the plotting is worse than sort semi fried GPUs that gamers can use.

It’s an interesting insight on human behaviour to see decentralised things fast become very centralised (ie HPOOL). What’s the value in encryption systems where a large stake of the system is swallowed by one giant group?

Anyway. I’ll stick out the plotting and see if the summer heat floors any components; but I’m choosing to do this and, well, I hope it isn’t more harm than just “idle” spare HD space. That’s part is certainly a kinda half-truth.

Chia is a coin, we farm Chia for one reason and one reason only…to make money. I dont think anybody is really on here because they wanted to buy large capacity drives, HBA’s, netapp drives and in my case flash cache drives for knowledge. We all came to this coin for the coin aspect of it. Im old school minor so i can take my losses and it doesnt sting much. But for many they jumped into this coin because it was the “everyman’s coin” that they could farm on hardware they already had or could purchase additional at a low price. There is no profit in this coin anymore unless you are a very large farmer. Pools wont solve the issue, just create a feel good moment for everyone since they see something going into there wallets. But if you do the math, nothing changes with pools. There’s my rant :slight_smile: im attacking no one, just ranting.