I know that very few of you guys reads Chinese, but there is this WeChat group talk now(not sure wether it’s just one or one of many) where trolls are chatting about methods that are to mine on multiple pools at the same time. The new eco pools (other than hpool) mentioned in their conversation we’re not there until just 2hours ago and you know why these eco pools are struggling to launch at these very moment; they aim to support double mining, even triple, quadro, as the chats are asking and answering.
My rough suggestion is to ban this new eco pools ASAP, though I do not like hpool either.
Or Chia official has better options to save our harvesting experience during the next three days(maybe longer) ?
Do something! I’m interpreting this one FYI:
“You can easily double mine on cc( Chia-core) and hp(Hpool) ATST, why would anyone spend money (on buying softwares that helps him achieve that)?
I have 40Tb of dust eating HDDs, and that’s all I mine with, filled up by an old school 1950x on sixteen seagate 15E900 within 10days. I mean mining is big boys’ romance, cheaters shall not be welcomed!
Chia is coming out with official pooling protocol / GUI etc.
If you are joining any un-official pools, you will get cheated out of rewards you would get as a solo farmer (over time) due to dual farming etc.
Not sure what you have in mind with “BAN them quick”, but Chia has no role in banning them…
Official pools are around the corner, be patient or risk it with un-official pool software
we can estimate how much netspace there is by seeing how many winners come forward then calculate the expected amount of space required for this many winners. depending on how many winners come forward, we adjust the difficulty on how high of a score you need to have on your ticket to win, so that there is never too many winners.
… well that’s shouldn’t influence net space as chiamax explained. It does drop instantly for a short minute. I’m sure a lot of these dual farmers got banned by Hpool at that moment.
Cool, thanks for explain. Does it also applies for pool farming? I know eco pools do not gain official support, does that mean dual farming that hurts other farmers on the same eco pool is very hard for chia official to put hands on regard on the current net space capability?
Why do you care?
Are you losing out?
Not than I condone it, but does it make any difference to the individual farmer in the long haul?
If the plots are valid, only 1 pool could claim the reward.
If you are not in one of those pools, it does not affect you.
It only affects the other members of those pools. They get less rewards because of cheaters / double farming.
The Chia “official” cannot do anything about this because it is an independent system.
That is why the official pool system will have proofs being send to all the plots frequently, so that pools can verify if people are double farming or not.
The issue with pools is that they need to know what your contribution is, with the upcoming official pooling protocol these are called points… compared to every pool participants contribution (total points).
Points are assigned to you by doing a very low difficulty puzzle on your plots… if you are fast to solve it, then the next request has a higher difficulty. but also more points as reward… until the challenge difficulty reaches x amount of puzzles solved a day (set by pool)… so over time each pool participant earns points in ratio of their amount of plots (ability to solve puzzles at the right difficulty for them).
The pools also need to be 100% sure the pool rewards (the 1.75 XCH) goes to their wallet (the farmer keeps the farmer reward of 0.25 XCH).
Chia official solves this with a ‘pool NFT’ attached to the plots (that’s why you need to replot) and the NFT points to the pool (wallet) where pool rewards go to when you find a block.
The NFT is on the blockchain and you can make it point to a different pool only every 30 minutes, making cheating the pool out of the reward because you switched just in time not possible.
The combination of points to determine pool contribution and the NFT to determine the one and only recipient of the pool reward solves all the issues the non official pools have today.
quick answer on current un-official pool participation and how cheaters impact you:
because current un-official pools don’t have a point system, but depend on imperfect means to count participation by users… users in your pool that cheat and report higher plot counts than in reality… or point to their wallet when a reward comes in, while the pool expect it to go to their wallet (and has rewarded the cheater in the past for their perceived participation)… the pool ends up with less Chia in their wallet then it expects given the users reported plots and will compensate by giving all (including you) less Chia than you should get when you solo mine your plots (over time).
Now if you are not part of a pool, or in a pool without cheaters… then there is no impact on your rewards… but for example hpool has a big cheaters problem… they report their participants netspace 40% higher then reality (based on XCH farmed by their participants)… so you can expect to earn a lot less via hpool then if you are solo (over time).
I mention the “over time” thing here, because solo mining will reward you over a long time… while pools reward you with small amounts much more frequent…
You will see people complain they have 0 XCH with thousands of plots etc… they may be unlucky,… maybe their setup is wrong… hard to say…
but if their system is correct and they would run it with current netspace for say 1 year, they would hit the rewards that https://www.chiaexplorer.com/charts/xchTib shows
Hmm, this raises an interesting question: can the network detect double, triple mining? Does it need to detect this?
I guess that’s only a problem for pools which are awarding fractional payouts? An actual chia coin award would go to the single winning plot, if there are copies of the plot, it doesn’t matter, only a single coin will be awarded based on the winning plot, even if there are many copies of that plot being farmed. Right?
I guess only pools need to detect this, not the network itself?
Interesting. I never thought this through before. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about any of the above!
Chia’s pooling protocol solves the issue of pretending to participate in multiple pools with your plots, via the ‘pool NFT’ that is blockchain based, and can only we changed 30 minutes or more after the previous change to point to a different pool.
The unofficial pools have no such ironclad mechanism and can be cheated, and are very much being cheated.
On the one hand I’m sure that anything my non-crypto brain can dream up has also been considered by the people who made the protocols but still can’t help to wander, maybe someone her can help clear this up.
Say someone has 512 plots, so 1 plots passes the filter each challenge.
Now that person make a copy of those plots and runs them through another node.
Does the same plot on both machines pass the filter every challenge? Or will different plots pass the filter on each node and therefor increase the chance of finding a proof?
P.S. I don’t understand the workings of the proof of space algorithm too well, so if I say something dumb…well
