We need to all work together to get farmers off Old OG Plot Pools if we want Chia to be success and for us to make a profit

I am going to get a lot of hate for this but I am going to lay out the facts. Chia is a network, this network is a product that the Chia devs have to sell to others. One of the biggest selling points is that each farmer runs their own node using open source software thus the network is decentralized and a 51% attack is almost impossible.

However, the OG pools ruin this. They require you to download and run closed source software and often give them your keys. This ruins Chia as a product and long-term will keep Chia from growing/tank the price. Because its closed source software, there is no guarantee that the software will not run a 51% attack. This makes Chia very insecure. USDC and other stable coins cannot join a network where more than 50%+ are running closed source software on their computers.

I realize its very tempting to sit back and do nothing. To make Chia someone else’s problem. But this is not the way. As farmers we need to support Chia through every way we can. If you really like HPool they have a new pool plot pool. Go replot and join it as long as it doesn’t require closed source software. I’m not advocating for farmers to join our pool specifically, I’m saying that you need to either solo or run open source software on the new pools to keep Chia safe so that its price/value can stay strong. If Chia fails it shouldn’t be because the ones profiting from it refused to act or support it.

I’m not telling you to delete all your plots today. But consider slowly replotting towards pool plots. And please encourage others to do so. Otherwise Chia will likely just keep going down in price.

We’re all in this together. It’s like we’re all members of the same country. We all want it to be successful. It’s in your self interest to do this. I know several are upset the new pool plots took so long and are annoyed at replotting. But the fact is this is still better than XCH price crashing to 0. And obviously if the price goes up that’s much better.

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First up, I never used hpool, I won blocks without it so am glad I didn’t give in to the initial temptation, if it had have been open source, or I was a windows user and not averse to downloading random binaries, I probably would have jumped at it.

I think some people think that their existing plots are way more valuable than they really are - and some people have really paid very dearly for their plots, e.g. if buying from plotting services when they were selling plots for more than a couple of cents… I’m not sure I consider a plot as having any intrinsic value it would be a real pain to lose them all of course, but the hardware to make them when I need them is what’s valuable. But that’s not necessarily a view that everyone else has.

Not sure what I can do other than point out the drawbacks of non-NFT pools, the chia devs should really have waited for pools before go-live, as is there likely is a lot of confusion from anyone outside of a relatively small group of people who probably wouldn’t even have a handle on the terminology we’re using, let alone know what what any of it means. It will probably take a while for XCH to recover any value - but on the other hand, I don’t see a low price as particularly bad - as long as it recovers of course. I don’t think the netspace will contract dramatically, because it’s so cheap to keep an XCH rig up, but it would be good for farmers if it stayed stable for a while.

I must admit that the new pools are growing much slower than I had thought they would.
According to Chia Explorer, the total size of NFT plots is about 1EiB.

On the other hand, netspace growth has been slowing down for a while so maybe it’s not that surprising that it’s not going that fast anymore.

Before we were seeing about 300 PiB/day growth but:

  • some people have quit and sold their stuff because the netspace kept going up and the price down.
  • China has been forcing miners to quit. I’m sure some of those miners will also have been in Chia. (and don’t think the Chinese government will be interested in the fact that hdd’s don’t so much power, it’s crypto end of the line.)
  • People are reaching the limit of their capacity and fund to keep expanding.

Then I can differentiate four types of farmers:

  1. Solo farmers with enough space and/or fund to keep going solo

  2. People who either bought their plots and have not plotting power, or for some other reason are not able/willing to replot.

  3. People who plotted themselves and don’t have enough plots to keep going solo. Some of these were solo until now, some in OG pool

  4. will stay solo

  5. is the group that will want to stay in the OG pools(if they keep existing) + cheaters of course

  6. is the group that is now either replotting or watching how the new pools turn out before switching.

Solo farmers is already a huge chunk of the netspace, people who are now in OG pool and can’t or won’t replot is maybe another 5 EiB. So Solo + that is already something like 15-20 EiB of the current space. So that leaves “only” 10 EiB being replotted.

I think I had a point to make but have since completely lost track of it :sweat_smile:

I guess i can round it up as follows:

Only about 1/3 or less of the netpace is currently being considered for replotting so i guess we shouldn’t be too surprised to see a growth of about 100 PiB a day for the new pools combined.’

But I do agree that everybody who isn’t going solo, should start replotting for the new pools.

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Hahaha, that’s me on a good day.


I’m sure the guys with the biggest farms will switch to NFT plots eventually? But there isn’t an incentive to rush since for these guys they’ll be just fine farming solo. If they do make the switch, not only will they need to replot a hell of a lot of plots, it’ll take a lot of time, and electricity too.

Think of all the NVME drives that gave their lives to make those OG plots lol.

If I had just made 1000s of OG plots, I would be a little reluctant too.

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What is the actual xch/pib on official pools like spacepool? Still on unofficial hpool, maybe i will replot if rewards are higher

NFT pools should pay more overall. I’ve seen people say the rewards are similar but thats because NFT pools also give you a 0.25 bonus if your the block finder which beats that 0.25 going to scammers.

That being said shifting to NFT pools or solo will boost the value of XCH too.

One of the biggest selling points is that each farmer runs their own node using open source software thus the network is decentralized and a 51% attack is almost impossible.

I agree that it’s better all are moving up to new pool protocol. However, I don’t think the decentralization and 51% attack have anything to do with or without a quick migration. A true coin designed for decentralization should be able to survive in either open or close software. Should 51% of coin holders decided to rebel, the network would be taken down (though very unlikely to achieve given the popularity of Chia).

In term of the odd of getting a reward, it doesn’t matter from the point of view of individual plots. The odd remains the same regardless the plot is in a pool or solo. Isn’t it?

My theory for the slow NFT plot transition (in part) is: many farmers are likely re-plotting at a slower rate to save power, and have sold off some of their plotters to reinvest into disk space. I’m sure there’s also a lot of hesitancy due to current state of the crypto market. Farmers joining Hpool was cannibalistic behaviour, not unusual for our species.

I’m churning out NFT plots at an economical rate and digging in for what hopefully won’t be a long crypto winter.

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I will not replot as long as there is an OG Plots pool that is lesser evil and has equivalent perks compared to NFT pools. Replotting is such a waste of watts and time.

On a side note, I think the netspace is not expanding that much because crypto overall is down. I for one, got my funds to buy HDDs from my GPU mining revenue. But since the prices now are rock bottom, I have no more capital for Chia rig expansion.

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This is utter non-sense.
Chia is going down because the develops Bram and Co didn’t think things through. XCH is utterly worthless as they is no use for it. They launched a new blockchain that was easy for everyone to farm. Plotting as a Service and those stupid enough to buy is more part of the cause for the price drop. 1 plot costing 1.50 or so with 1tib of plots earning 1.75 a month with pooling. So 1tib of brought plots will cost how much and how long to recover? Do the maths. Those people overpaid were greedy and someone naive and the plot as a service vultures prey on those weak excuse of humans to make a quick buck.

51% attack blah blah. That’s just Bram and Co sprucing fear and diverting attention from their own failures of the launch of XCH.

Should more likely stop support for Caleb and Co from Pool Space as he sold all his XCH to start graphics card mining. LOL pump and dumb and people are still helping him earn money via YouTube and Pool Space. LOL LOL

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@dandyandy85 Have you tried thinking?

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Just so happens I have 58TB of OG plots (solo farming) and finishing up filling up another 58TB NFT plots.

Too bad the OG plots hadn’t win any blocks yet, but it would be wasteful to replot. Going to sit at 50/50 for now, let’s see how situation develops.

My average HDD cost was $30.50 / TB - I joined late to the party and didn’t know these prices were elevated.

Going to wait and see, perhaps storage market to cool down, or just straight up buy XCH when it goes below $20 or so.

This hobby turned out to be quite expensive (though still an order of magnitude cheaper and less fire hazard than GPU mining). Not expecting any ROI at this point, but it wouldn’t hurt much to run my farm (100W total is not that bad)

Yes I have , have you?

Why should people look to support this project when Bram clearly thinks anyone trying to profit is self entitled and stop it.

Isn’t he trying to make a profit and turn XCH into a security by getting it listed on a stock exchange. Was he telling himself to stop it?

@Monty please advise if I use my brain? I dunno man. Too much time spent at a nuclear plant. DandyHomer

If you have the same # of plots and compare earnings between OG and OP. I’m quite sure that the OP earnings is quite higher.
Unless you join a private OG pool, then the earnings will have not much difference.
That’s from my experience when I both tried running OG and OP pool.

Does Bram control the crypto market? No
Are there any alt coins that haven’t plummeted in this crash? No
Could Bram have predicted the timing of the crash? No
Every time I hear people bitch and moan and blame their misfortune on Bram, I think of this…

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I’m not blaming Bram…I’m just saying him and do are in for themselves, and we should stop filling entitled to support at our cost for because like he said we should stop it. If the creator of XCH twitts like that he is as bad as Trump to be heading an organisation! Just saying

You totally not blaming Bram I believe

If I get rekt, the person I have to blame is myself, that’s what grown-ups do. If I was a math genius who created a blockchain and told everyone not to go pissing their money away on storage, and they pissed their money away on storage, and then got pissed at me because their storage didn’t turn to gold in 3 months, I’d probably be inclined to tweet something they wouldn’t like hearing too.

It took years for BTC and ETH to take off, XCH may go huge quicker, then again it may not. Anyone who thought a few HDDs would score them a Lambo in a few months is trippin’

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Agreed, however i do think they could do a much better job at PR and community engagement.

Yes Bram said don’t go buy hardware too much.
But Gene also loves to brag about the netspace and the full node count…and that’s because many ppl bought hdd and started plotting.

So a little acknowledgement for the community supporting their project wouldn’t hurt.

They don’t control the price, but they (can) have a great influence on it. Positive and confidence inspiring communication goes a long way towards that.

But they have hired someone to get working on that and 3 months is very young. So i wait and see.

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