Creating a cooperative, since pools are delayed

Hey folks,

I’ve been looking forward to pool support for a while now, and since pools are delayed, I’ve been thinking of ways to improve the reward distribution ahead of pools.

I’d like to start a cooperative: a trust-based group where we distribute our rewards using our existing plots, without sharing keys with the broader group.

Because this system is based on trust, as rewards are awarded by the network to the wallet that owns the plots, I’m looking to smart carefully with a manual vetting process; I’m looking for folks that can be verified (e.g. by linkedin, github, etc) and that own at least 250 plots.

I’m still finalizing the distribution formula, but I was thinking of something simple as 10% to the wallet that wins the reward, and 90% distributed in shares to all participants (including the wallet that won). Still TBD whether proof of participation is done via total plot count (trust based) or by relying on proofs / filter.

I currently have 3100 plots (310T) and growing, and my target for the cooperative is that we reach at least 1PB of netspace, but obviously the larger the group we can put together under safe premises (again, trust), the better.

Feel free to drop me a note by private message if you’re interested.

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How is everyone able to audit each other? I think a mechanism to do that would close out any concerns.

Also maybe 80/20 split or 70/30 to honor the ‘winning’ wallet a bit more?

This peeked my interest but these were the questions that immediately came to my mind.

I’ll have around 2300 plots (252TB) - but still in early stages of plotting.

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I could also be interested in a collaboration. Currently around 4k plots. Will have around 12K plots when done plotting.

I suppose we could technicall audit each other with Chia Explorer, here’s my wallet for example with the single Faucet deposit I got this morning:
https://www.chiaexplorer.com/blockchain/address/xch1tkr0acz9wfwh567pvgs9zyq2x8mrfllnee6qchgn3fl58vs6sytqxgd2gj

If we privately shared our public wallet addresses with each other (assuming it’s a small group) and could even grab an API key and script the auditing for hourly updates to everyone in the pool so the information was shared equitably.

As far as distribution, I guess we’d script an end of day summary “PersonA send PersonB X.XX and PersonC Y.YY”?

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I never understood why HDD mining pools always have some sort of X% to the miner who finds the block and Y% to everyone else. Why not just split based on % share?

I’m approaching 4800 plots and interested. It’s either this or join fake-pool…

I guess since we are going to have to do this manually, maybe the person who farms the XCH gets 5% for the trouble of having to send it to everyone else.

I am currently at a little over 200 and will end up at 1000 plotting 33 a day. I am very interested in this.

IMO (a non tech, non crypto person) it seems like the dev’s of this coin are really targeting large data centers in order to have a more stable/secure network and eliminate regular people yoloing money to try to get rich. The problem they ran into is HPOOL poses a critical risk to the network. If HPOOL didn’t exist I don’t think pools would even be a thought in their mind. Pooling does not really go with the idea of this coin being green. Its makes it just like every other coin. Random people wasting tons of electricity plotting plots they are extremely likely to abandon because of the income is not worth it versus what the average PC user with a couple of TB storage has and can not use because its “farming”. I am sure someone saw all the underutilized space at places like AWS and thought “we could use that excess space as flex space to secure our coin”.

Maybe I am misinterpreting the idea but the vibe I get is they wanted big data centers to do the heavy lifting for pennies on the the dollar with the little players (under 5 PB) just filling in to make the network somewhat decentralized when approaching investors.

All this leads me to be a lot more willing to join something like this. Honestly, If everyone is in the US it would be easy and cheap to make an LLC and have the LLC handle the information regarding plots and everyone is covered.

Hey folks, I ended up not spending more energy on this as there were additional updates of official pool support. But as official pools require replotting I’m still considering an option on this direction (replotting 1PB no fun). But I’m looking for the official update to pool operators this June 2nd to decide what do do next.

If you have sizable number of plots (1000+) let me know via private message if you’re still interested, and I’ll circle back in the coming days.

By plot count, I have many K-33s, that provide much larger “space of proof” but less in pure plot counts.
The more fair way of doing it is by TiB of space.
That way, yes, I’ll join you.
I’m at 37.848 TiB (and still plotting)

So for the delay. I’m putting together a plan to get back to this, specially as replotting will be costly.

My current thought is to run a side-chain that rotates at a fixed period (e.g. daily, or weekly), where you submit proofs of space to, along side mainnet. “Chia” you produce in the side-chain, determine your pool shares. So in essence you’ll be farming twice: once for mainnet, and also for the pool to determine fairness. With current resource requirements for farming, this should be fine. This should also make it trivial for folks to make use of whatever setup they already have (e.g. multiple harvesters, etc).

The only part that relies on trust is fund distribution, as mainnet farming credits the farmer. To address this, I’m thinking of using staking to at least mitigate some of the risk (e.g. either stake chia to get into the pool, or alternatively stake the initial farmed blocks while in the pool).

The modified software will be open source.

Open for thoughts here. Due to the staking involved, I expect that this solution is only attractive for folks that have a more sizable farm space (number is TBD, but I would assume at least 500TB).