I thought it was 3.5%?
Also given that their an OG plot pool I assume there’s going to be the normal 10-20% loss you expect on OG pools if they ever do find blocks due to scamming assuming everything isn’t a massive scam.
Also kind of weird to see 395 plots total on their pool (was 200ish a day or two ago). Basically means the devs don’t have their own small HDD farm. We got 100-200TB. just for internal use before we launched flexpool chia and I’m now at 240ish personally.
It says 0.5% on NoSSD Chia Pool. The 10-20% slippage with OG plots comes from double farming. Double farming is not possible in nossd scheme.
I agree about the small farm size. I would have expected at least a couple of hundred TiB at the launch.
Under help “ Standard mining fee on this pool is 3.5%. ”
Reminds me of how Ezil’s fee on the front page is 1% but in their terms the actual fee was 3% or something.
My Atari 2600 plays chess with 4K of code, and 128 bytes of RAM.
Our standard fee is 3.5%. And that simply means that we will never go beyond that value.
Current fee is 0.5% to praise early adopters.
Are you just projecting based on your own doing?
Why are you making such claims? Where is the data that can back it up. You go after them as being Russians, but you have Ukrainians in your SW team. Same thing if you ask me, two of the top countries as far as malware attacks. What is wrong with you?
Man, sure the way they started is not as anyone here is considering safe. It is still a security risk. However, spewing such FUD is just ridiculous.
Whoa there our own doing? To my knowledge we’ve gone above and beyond we’ve reimbursed people when payments were issued at the wrong gas, we refunded someone with a balance over a year old that was wiped when we cleared old accounts, we were the first eth pool to share mev income instead of keeping it, we’re one of the few pools with a legal address in the west, etc. I’ve never seen a single complaint about our honesty and I think that’s reflected in the fact that we became the 4th largest ETH pool from rank 20+ in 12 months despite the industry being years old. The fact that OG plot pools get scammed is common knowledge that’s a big reason why Chia developed the NFT plots and people switched over.
As for where our devs are located I’m not going to confirm or deny anything but given the current climate I wouldn’t be telling any Ukrainian he is the same as a Russian unless you want a swift punch. It’s extremely inappropriate to be comparing the two at this time and I hope you show more sensitivity when talking to people in person.
Back on topic. Bram just said this pool is a scam in multiple tweets which confirms what most of us suspected.
Making claims about plot compression which are mathematically impossible. Making claims about plot speed improvements which are very implausible after many great engineers have already optimized it a lot
Con artists are often completely entitled and narcissistic like that. The attitude is often a dead giveaway by itself. This is not a complete list of red flags, but you get the idea. Look out for these among others as well.
So I plotted 3 nossd plots with c5 compression and one without compression (didn’t specify -c option at all) I cannot see more than 13% size reduction compared to chiapos and madmax plots.
Did I miss something?
Some lapses in memory? Chia blocks misplaced/pool activity - went solo, yet block rewards (1.75) transferred to pool
I don’t think that you came clean out of that thread. You basically stated that you don’t care and as all your buddies that work for you support that claim, you don’t give a damn. You quoted what they wrote and that was just mental diarrhea to support your position. You have shown no evidence of that guy making up story and ignored all the evidence he provided. So, we don’t need to look that far to see your lies.
You constantly make up technical claims that are baseless and when pushed against the wall, you try to weasel out of that as “I am not technical, …” Just in this thread, you went back whining to Max to get his support, when you were caught making up stories about fake web pages, again showing that you have no clue what you are talking about.
But I am digressing. I have not attacked you for what you are doing with Flex as I don’t give a rat’s ass about it, but rather at your baseless accusations you are spewing at those guys. So, you are trying to change a goalpost to get away from it.
What I am telling you is that if you don’t know those guys, don’t have a crystal ball that you can see in the future, then don’t put BS and claim some sort of authority for that.
As I stated above several times, I am not trying to defend those guys, and I also will not use their client as I also consider it a high security risk. However, having something to be a high security risk is not the same as claiming that the next week it will start spreading monkey pox, what you basically implying.
If you recall, he also said that MM plotter was garbage. He also levied false claims against your FlexFarmer. Then after several months the official position was changed that they (Bram, Gene) were misinformed.
So, where is the data that back his new claim? Let us see it. Everything you quoted from those tweets are just ad hominem attacks.
Robert who did our support for this specific case is a pretty awesome guy who has done a lot to help the community. We hired him because he was doing a ton of support for Hive, us and others for free so we figured we’d pay him for what he already enjoys doing. He also runs the Chia farmers telegram which isn’t connected to Flexpool and was one of the earliest Chia farmers. I think he actually has a farm too as I recall seeing goats.
We were pretty honest here in that we stated he wasn’t using our software so we’re not responsible. That being said we did also ask for evidence to investigate which he didn’t provide and it’s not guilty until proven innocent as you’d suggest. We distribute millions in crypto a day $65 is not something we would bother stealing and in fact we only got 0.7% with the rest going to our farmers. I doubt anyone is going to call us cheaters for giving more money to our customers? The fact that the person went off on our staff and threatened us is also a factor behind us not being as friendly as we usually are. The way a pool works is the network/protocol sends us crypto and we distribute it to our customers that’s what we did here. I’ve heard it said that Space will take from future block rewards to give back to so and so and that’s nice of them but I assume they collect a lot of evidence before doing so instead of just believing someone who screams they stole his money so I suspect they would have done what we did here.
As for Bram yes everyone makes mistakes but Bram has specifically stated a list of reasons why this is a scam in this Twitter over multiple posts this isn’t a casual comment he and the Chia team have investigated.
I’ll be honest having talked to you a few times I think you should seek mental help. This is not meant as an insult, it is advice to help you before something bad happens. Mental illness affects a lot of us and we sometimes get in a bad place. There’s nothing wrong with seeking help when you need it.
You are definitely not someone who should be giving advice on seeking “mental help”. Seriously, take a deep look at yourself before worrying about others.
There is a lot more red flags with this software than both MMplotter and FlexFarmer combined.
You have to wait for the finalization step, which happens when all your directories are fully plotted with “sparse plots” (ie. stage 1 plots). Check their help page, it shows the expected plot size for stage 1 & 2 for each compression level.
I agree with you 100%, but that doesn’t entitle people that have no tech background to start making up stories what it can do. That is the first point I was trying to make.
The second that I made before is that people are conflating the packaging part with the core tech and start using the first one to discredit the second one. There is no connection between those two. We all agree that the first part is a big problem; however, for the second one we only have what Max have observed so far. He is the only expert in this thread.
Again projecting? (20)
Thanks for mentioning this. If there was a mute person button, I would have muted him by now. So I’m glad I’m not the only one. I’ve dealt with a lot of different personalities in various forums and had my fair share of dust ups. I have never rarely had to poke somebody in the chest like I did in this thread (with no response). Jacek to me is somebody that I wish didn’t reply to anything I post. I get that it’s a tight community here of a handful of people but I don’t suggest trying to take a run at me. If you want this to remain a place of 10 regulars? Oh really. Everyone has to agree? Oh really. If you don’t like what I say, don’t read it, don’t reply and by all means, I’ll do the same. I have no issue debating topics or being proven wrong. A lot of people however are paper giants.
That’s what I missed, was wondering how to tell the plotter to not keep plotting, didn’t care to find out! Thanks! Interestingly, the sparse plots were also already farming.
From Bram
There are a bunch of simple techniques they can use for faking a demo, like tricking the OS into lying about the amount of space the plots are taken up, or having their utility for checking proof validity lie about the quality of a proof of space. The only real audit is where you have a hard drive jammed full of plots so they’re using up all the space, then run an audit from a remote machine using a trusted codebase and check that the proofs of space it’s handing over are valid from there. But I don’t recommend anybody waste their time doing that with this one, it’s an obvious scam. They don’t even seem to understand the distinction between speeding up plotting and plot compression. We’ve had massive plotting speedups over time but literally nobody has made generally available a more compressed format getting any improvement on space used at all. We’re working on a more compressed format but it’s a huge amount of work just to get out 2-3% improvement. Something on the order of 5-10% more could be done using a Hellman attack, maybe it’s possible to get 2% using inlining, although it isn’t even clear if that works in theory. Claiming 25% is just smoking hopium.
Also this tweet thread:
https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/1546996454798987264
Thank you @Digital
So, let’s go with the initial claims. If they trick OS and are reporting false sizes, one could copy one plot to another box that have not seen their client, and that clean box would report the proper size. At least, I would think that a file cannot trick the OS, it has to be a layer between the OS and the file to do that. Maybe I am wrong here. Although, this is a simple test to do. (@xorinox would you be able to check one file on a clean box (maybe tar that plot, just in case before moving)?)
Jamming a drive full of those plots can easily be done using a small SSD (250 GB will be full after two plots, but assuming 20% compression, it could potentially fit 3 of those plots (100GB - 20% = 80 GB * 3 = 240 GB). Although, maybe 250 GB is not the best, as it is borderline capable of holding three plots, so maybe using 512 GB would be a better test.
Again, I am not saying that I have any knowledge or expertise to test it, but some of those claims looks like could be easily tested.
Still, those statements are against the “core technology” that they claim to have, nothing really about the security part, and we know that regardless of the core technology their client is a high security threat, so we can leave that part aside for a moment.
At current the pool site hasn’t got a block. I also didn’t see an anser to max’s all important “did this work on testnet to produce blocks” question. This could be a really short ride in our tardis if we can’t get time to match the space that is produced. Is there a testnet version we could join to proof its value quicker?
