Been awhile since I have stopped by the forums but I have been running my farm since I last visited. I grabbed some new drives and want to get them going on the farm.
I see compression is now everywhere and NoSSD seems to be running 50% compression. So a couple questions.
With a 32GB 7900x and 7900xtx system. Can I do anything to make compressed plots on windows now? I would like to run compression but a lower compression so I can still mine it efficiently with a low wattage i3.
I also have a similar system at the office but with a 3080 however it is watercooled and important to the business to not kill hard drives on. So I can’t just swap cards easily to plot and don’t want to deal with killing drives on it to plot.
If I use no SSD to plot do I have to use those plots on their pool? I’d perfer not to use madmax GH because of the high dev fee (unless that has changed). Is there any other plotting options out there to make compressed plots easily?
You roughly pay the same fee’s on both, the difference is with NoSSD it is consistent/hidden, just like any other pool. With GH it is random, but it evens out over time.
You can only use NoSSD with NoSSD’s pool, GH can be used with any pool.
So I was just looking at madmax’s plotter because that might be the better option for me honestly but the math on his github dosn’t seem right.
The dev fee is as follows:
3.125 % when using GPU(s) to farm compressed plots
1.562 % when using CPU(s) to farm compressed plots
0 % for regular uncompressed plots
When you find a block there’s a chance the 0.25 XCH farmer reward is used as fee, this is a random process. In case of CPU farming it’s 1 out of 8 blocks on average, and for GPU farming it’s 1 out of 4 blocks on average.
Maybe I am dumb but 1/8 blocks on average isn’t 3% it’s 12.5% and 1/4 blocks on average is 25%. Not sure what I am missing here for the 1-3% numbers to make sense?
Currently a farmer gets 2 XCH per block (halving in March), so 4 block wins is 8 XCH, multiple that by 3.125% and you get 0.25 XCH which is the “farmer reward” of a block win currently.
One thing you should be made aware of is that NoSSD has built in a backdoor to their software via libtorrent, so once you install it, they have full ability to remotely update and execute any code, most crypto communities have rejected that behavior because its an unnecessary security risk.
Yeah but the farmer reward is the only thing I care about. So for a pool farmer the dev fee’s are 12.5% and 25% then.
I don’t plan on GPU farming.
I was looking at using c4 plots most likely to keep energy costs down so. 1/8th (12.5% of my blocks are a dev fee) then add in the pool fees too.
It is what it is, debating grabbing 128GB of DDR4 to use blade bit and my 3080 at the office. Would this 100% remove all disk write on my SSD’s?
I really don’t want to use NOSSD with everything I have been reading about them tbh but they also are a significantly smaller fee overall then madmax + pool tbh and would allow me to replot compressed without buying more then just hard drives so, it is tempting.
Every block win has a 1.75 XCH “pool” portion (even when solo) and a 0.25 “farmer” portion, for a total of 2 XCH per block win. Are you with me so far? 2 XCH total per block win.
(if using the GPU) The “1 out of 4 blocks average” applies to the “farmer” portion of only 1 block every 4 blocks, where you have won a total of 8XCH, and now pay a 3.125% fee which is 0.25 XCH.
(if using the CPU) The “1 out of 8 blocks average” applies to the “farmer” portion of only 1 block every 8 blocks, where you have won a total of 16XCH, and now pay a 1.5625% fee which is 0.25 XCH.
I don’t know how to make it more simple to understand and cross any language or math barriers.
…and you shouldn’t, the known libtorrent backdoor in NoSSD software is an unnecessary security risk, the party who benefits most from backdoors are malicious actors which is why the crypto industry shuns this practice because its never ended well for the end users, just the bad guys.
P.S. If you only plan to use C4 plots, you might as well use Bladebit from Chia and pay zero fees, because if thats your hang up, at that size, you might as well take the free route thats open source.
But if you are mining on a pool you only receive 0.25XCH by winning a block. I have one a single block so far and received .25 for that. I don’t care where the rest goes or why.
But if max is going to take 100% of my reward from that block that changes the math and a farmer can expect the numbers I said if not farming solo. So for all the purposes I care about my math is correct. I don’t solo farm and would of made less solo farming that way.
That math looks right if you are solo farming but for pool farming where you only get a 1/4 of the block reward anyways it changes the math drastically of what you recieve. Like I said I could care less what happens to the rest of the reward, I am aware where it goes, but it doesn’t goto you so.
I can see this is going to be one of those “thats not how any of this works” conversations because you don’t get what is being said and how it all works together, and I don’t know how to simplify it more.
Maybe someone else can explain it in a way you will understand better, you were also given a 3rd option that has zero fees and would fit the levels you are seeking, but you seemed to ignore that too.
So blade bit, what is the minimum ram I need to use a GPU with no hard drive used or maybe like a little hard drive, does it need a 128GB ram disk and system ram as well on top of that?
I’m not plotting or using enough drives to warrant a major change of hardware as it will likely never ROI anyways.
My goal is to get some low level compressed plots easily without losing a ton in dev fees
You’re forgetting to include what the pool pays you! If you’re solo you get 2 XCH (0.25 + 1.75) when you eventually find a block, in a pool the 1.75 (less a bit for pool fees) is shared between everyone, and like wise if someone else finds a block you get a share, so you get a regular payment. Effectively you’re 1.75 is paid in small increments, but you still get.
I mean I understand that 1.75 goes to the pool and that is what makes pooling feasible. Which I have no issues with honestly. Without pooling I would of never got back into chia honestly. But I also don’t care that my found block helped propel pooling for everyone else if my 0.25 goes to a dev.
Max makes awesome stuff and he should make money, i wish it was possible for him to just take shares every now and again like he did with POW miners back in the day vs 1 out of 4 of my pool rewards for a 20% increase on a small farm. It is what it is, not here to fight over should he make more or less, I just don’t like how the math works out being a small farm to my pockets and would like to avoid it as is.
Another option is to just ride it out with regular plots and pass on the 20-25% space you could save with CPU appropriate compression levels (you won’t be able to farm 50% compression on CPU anyway). No extra fees .
I’ve allready started plotting normal plots before I even wrote the question but I would still like to do some compression. I was hoping that months ago the release would include like an average user way to plot them. I would be ok with 1 hour long plots if I could plot them with normal stuff and GUI.
I think bladebit is the only way forward if I really want to redo the farm with compression or atleast move them over to compression slowly or just new drives. But I am not making a mega farm. I like the fact I can grab a 8TB used server drive when I want, plot it up and toss it into the farm and still have a super low wattage farm going.
I could get a cheap 3060 or just throw one of my cards into the miner but I am pretty sure that if I where to dedicate a GPU to something as a miner again it wouldn’t be chia. At Least not unless the price goes about 10x where it is.
So for blade bit, I have a DDR4 setup with a r7 5800x and the 3080. So using the 3080 what is the minimum ram I need for the system total to use blade bit? 64GB/128GB?
I normally use the r9 7900x at home to CPU plot on but I can’t pull the 3080 out to bring home without a stupid amounts of work, I don’t want to do at all and it is DDR5 so even more costs to up the ram.
Blade Bit - I have 32GB in the system and a 3080. What ram do I need to have 0 writes on the drive or even majorly reduced writes to the system drive?
It definitely depends on the size of the farm to expect the same rewards. You guys are presenting the math as if a small pool farmer will earn the same amount based on the block rewards being 2xch but what you are forgetting is that a pool farmer will only ever see .25 of that reward in their pocket (plus shares of course). The other 1.75 goes to the pool to slowly trickle out between blocks and the biggest get more etc etc. But you get the little sprinkle of the 0.25 direct to you rarely. Max will take 1 of every 4 of those sprinkle’s. That is a direct 25% reduction to your spinkle pocket. The rest of the block and everyone’s blocks goes to the pool always. So max vs no max the only difference is the sprinkle landing in your pocket or his. (again not saying he doesn’t deserve the sprinkle if you used his plotter) But that is the reality of the math by using his plotter.
Now if I had a large farm or a mega solo farm then I would probably just use max and I understand the math. I also would not care he got to take 0.25xch of a 2xch reward. That is a solid deal and it’s only 1/4 of the time. Cool but you still not only directly got the other 1.75 into your pocket but you would be getting them at a rate that it wouldn’t feel bad to see his dev fee pop up.
So anyways, whether or not the math checks out to you, it is not math I want to pay. If people want to give up 25% of their sprinkles on the pool to max for the plotter cool. Doesn’t mean I want or have to.
I wrote all this for GPU plotting, CPU would be 12.5% of the sprinkles respectively and 1/18th of the time. I am tired and need to go to bed and don’t want to go back and edit this more.
For bladebit C7 or lower compressed GPU plotting, you need min. 128 GB ram. I have 3060 rtx and 128 ram and average plotting is about 10 minutes with direct writing to disk for windows 11. I use a 500 GB SSD for temp drive. You also need a GPU for harvesting compressed plots.
This is what my 78TB farm currently costs and is making about $4 a week. But really it is currently making negative because I haven’t sold anything. Apparently I am awful at math but regardless pretty sure if I did sell at today’s prices I would be net positive. I also have 4TB drives farming too because maths. Also my electricity is closer to $0.05 but I like to round up to include the other additional costs of the electricity bill.
My entire rig pulls 100-110w from the wall currently. It will pull more after adding these new 8TB drives by like 16w and also why I don’t want to slam the CPU, which adds to electric costs or add a GPU which will add a ton to electric costs. c4 should be a simple small boost to farming without requiring the power costs to go nuts.
When it comes to the GH fee you’re maths, or rather you’re understanding sucks Although I will admit it is tricky to get you’re head around, and loads of people misunderstand it, but do you really think that someone as clever as Max would get the maths wrong, and if he had, loads more people would be saying so on his Discord, but all I see is people who occasionally misunderstand it being put right by others who have nothing to gain from it.
But if you’re only going C4 then go Bladebit, there’s no point paying extra for GH.
Luckily for you you’re electric costs are low, in the UK the normal price is around £0.30 kWh ( US $0.38), but I have solar and batteries, so my costs are greatly reduced.
There’s no need for ram disk’s any more, the figures quoted are minimum required system ram, but I think that 16GB mode doesn’t work on Windows, that may be Linux only.
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Although I will admit it is tricky to get you’re head around, and loads of people misunderstand it, but do you really think that someone as clever as Max would get the maths wrong, and if he had, loads more people would be saying so on his Discord, but all I see is people who occasionally misunderstand it being put right by others who have nothing to gain from it.