Is coin distribution fair, and is pooling the only way forward for small farmers?

General Chia Discussion
1

Hi everyone,

Last days i’m in a dilemma towards chia, and after searching for some answers in forums/github, i still have some question unanswered, and here are some:

1. We all now one of the big advertisements of chia is for being green. But, is a fair coin? Is the coin distribution fair?
We know that even if you have 1000 plots, but if you unlucky you still have only a very small change to win, and can pass days, weeks or even months without a single win.
In my mind, this chance of not winning, scares me…a lot.
Compared with other coins, i know from the start if i invest xx amount of money, i know when my investment gonna be paid. But not for chia, if i invest money i don’t know when is gonna pay out, calculators only tells you the probability of time you can win, and that miss lead people, and gives them the illusion of winning.
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This isn’t accurate information. The percentage of not winning is way greater than winning.
So, i still have this question unanswered, is chia a fair coin? is chia a coin to make “richer” even more richer?
And this question bring me more question, why should i go “greener” in a system that make richer even more richer?
Because we already know that small farmers don’t have a chance to prosper in chia.
And this statement bring me another big question

2.Are pools the only way for small farmers prosper in chia?
This bring me to my mind that small farmers have to stay united if they wanna prosper. But are pools the solution?

And now i might need a correction here:
Every minute, chia coins are rewarded to those that have eligible plots, and the winner is chosen out of 512 chosen.
A lottery that prizes who have more entry tickets.
And for this i ask, why aren`t farmers rewarded for the amount of space they provide to network.

if i have 0.007% of the network (200TiB), why we don’t win that amount of the 2 chia rewarded every minute directly from the network.
2 x 0.007% = 0.00014 XCH/minute
In my mind this a way fair distribution of prizes than a lottery.
and why add pools to equation? why put intermediaries in the middle to add fees in this simple equation?

and this are my two big questions at the moment. What you think guys?

edit: sorry about the mess in this statements, but this is how my mind is towards chia.

4 Likes
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From what I know, it does not matter the number of plots you have, but the overall plot size.
This works like lottery. You deal with probabilities and that is why you have pools (syndicates) in lottery as well.
This is the way the system works.
Personally, I think pools will improve the reward cadence, but I’m afraid the netspace will end up being owned by a handful of pools which could be bad.

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Guys, the only thing different about mining/farming in Chia is that no matter who finds the block they are guaranteed 1/8 of the block reward. Netspace (total network hash) and your percentage of it will ALWAYS determine your share of the reward. We are ALL solo mining at this point unless you are one of the folks willing to give up your pneumonic phrase and install 3rd party software from Hpool. Legit pools will be online very soon and will increase your payout frequency (at a cost, pool fee) and you will see rewards proportional to your share of netspace (total network hash). It’s all the same as traditional mining, just different terminology and far less power usage.

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the question still the same,

at the moment there are no pools, so since 3rd May the big farms are getting most of rewards and profits, probably enough profit to double or more they netspace while small farmers still on a loss because they had invest money and didn’t saw any return yet.

is that fair?

and with pools, why have a middle man? why give money to people that they job is form group of peoples and shares the rewards for a fee.

At the moment we have no pools and the system is working and chia is being paid directly to farmers, why not change directly from the network, and pay directly to famers accordingly to space they own?

i say this cuz i’ve always been against pools. they get paid just for started a group with “no work”.

is that fair?

1 Like
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You fundamentally do not understand how this works. Your share of the netspace is the same whether pools exist or not. If you join a pool with a tiny farm you will get exactly what you would get if you solo farmed and just waited. So you can join a pool and farm for 6 months at 0.0767 XCH/day minus the pool’s 3% or whatever, or you can wait the estimated 6 months for your block to hit and get your two XCH that way.

If you are basically just complaining that you don’t have the same resources as other people do to increase your share of netspace, well my friend, that’s on you. Make better choices?

There is absolutely nothing “unfair” about the process.

Have you ever mined any crypto before?

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I think you didn’t get my point of view

i will put it in another way.

Let say im a investor with 1 million to invest.
And as all good investors i want to know when i will start to have something in return and how much.

At the moment you cant tell how and when much money you gonna get if you invest $xxx, you only know the probability of what you can get, again the illusion of profit

and i bet none investor will give away their money to something uncertain.

Have you ever invested money before?

7

This is a equality vs equity discussion. This is how most (if not everything) works in our world.
You could set up progressive reward system where if you have small size plot, you get more percentage of the reward. Basically just like income taxes in some countries.
The more you earn, the more percentage you pay in taxes.
But this will be the same at the end with people with more resources will try to game the system.

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there you have

but still, how much money i have to invest to be a big fish, and how much money i will get in return and when?

i think this answers cant be answered yet, cuz they want to rely on pools (middle man). and still even a pool cant say how much money you gonna get for the amount you invested.

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You are asking for absolute certainty on ROI with a crypto currency?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It’s all risk/probability.

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are you sure?

i know if i invest $30,000 in a asic rig to plot eth i know that in around 10~12 months i have my money back.

can you say the same about chia?

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What if ETH price tanks? Where’s your certainty?

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Well same way you invest 30.000 in a chia farming rig, you will be more successful… probably :slight_smile:

1 Like
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Chia Calculator - How much can I earn farming Chia (XCH)?

There is the best tool to give you the “certainty” you are looking for.

14

With all due respect vavi, your comments lead me to believe you are brand new to crypto mining.

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15

Man, $30K you can have a 1.5PB farm which according to the calculator will give you $162k/month.
Looks like good investment to me :slight_smile:

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this is not accurate, this give you the probablitity of winning not what you gonna win xD

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Well, I won with only 2.5TB… probability… it’s what all comes down to.

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Ok now I’m convinced you’re just a troll. Nobody can be this dense. Have a good day. Please don’t invest in Chia. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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19

I understand @vavi 's frustration. Investing in almost 200TB and nothing.
I recommend patience. Live your life and keep plotting.

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is that matter if im new or not?

is that important to change if my point of view is wrong or not?

grrr, hate when people dont have arguments and start go personal… and change the OP discussion