As I understand it problem 2 means people are reporting to hpool that they have more plots than they actually have. Does that also mean that the estimated network space of currently 12.5 EiB is partially fake?
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Not sure, but I don’t think so.
The reported Netspace is calculated based on how fast blocks are created, so that should be solid and only count functioning blocks.
It’s more the problem that it means that people are stealing from the pool, because they are taking more rewards that they should, lowering the rewards for the rest.
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very interesting…00000
No, the reported netspace (as reported by the official chia client or chiaexplorer.com) can’t be based on how fast blocks are created. I can create blocks offline.
As the rewards pool members get has to be based on how much blocks they have they have to be faking that to get more rewards than they should.
I just checked the hpool website: https://www.hpool.com/statistics/chia
The top right hand corner says 0,57 xch/Pb, if that means hpool is receiving 0,57 xch per petabyte per day, they are quite a bit off from the xch/pb/day number chiaexplorer has, which is 0,74: https://www.chiaexplorer.com/charts/xchTib
Are they taking 24% fees, is 24% of their pool faked, is it just variance or I am interpreting the data wrong?
(I don’t understand chinese/mandarin/whatever language the hpool site is using).
I do understand Chinese, at least enough to find the button that says “Chinese and change it to English” 
(top right, 简体中文)
You’re mixing up blocks with plots here I think. A block is something else that a plot, blocks are added to the blockchain, and cannot be created offline.
Chia has more or less fixed time per block, the difficulty gets adjusted in real-time to keep the number of block per day steady when the netspace changes.
So from that formula they can calculate how many plots are actually online helping to create the blockchain.
The way you look at the data on hpool is not wrong, the rewards are 20-25% lower than what you “should” get.
But that is - at least according to them - caused by the fact that people are overreporting their space to them.
The pool size they have should win about 2000 blocks a day, but they only get 1600 or so. Now those 1600x2 XCH has to be divided by more pool space, so the reward per TB gets lower than it should be, profiting those who are faking space.
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Oops, brain fart. You’re absolutely right, I mixed up plots and blocks.
Wow, that’s quite a premium ppl are willing to pay to avoid the lottery then. That also means hpool must mostly consist of small farmers. Once you hit something like 500TB, those kind of fees start hurting more than variance.
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I think it will be absolutely shocking how much HPool shrinks when legit pools come online. And the netspace will go into wild fluctuation for a couple weeks starting in a couple days when a lot of people will decide to replot with the new portable plots.
Will it fluctuate much? I’m not planning on deleting all my plots. In fact, I have 8TB set aside for new pool plotting. And I’ll delete old plots as I go along likely. If anything, maybe it’ll flatline for a little while?
I wonder if there are still more cheaters hiding in there. Assuming those numbers are correct they’re getting about 80% of the wins they should. Also assuming they’re the top farmer on Chia Explorer, they have just over 4500 PiB with 500 PiB banned. So they still have 90% of the claimed plots they did before the bans.
To me, that hints they may still have 500 PiB worth of cheaters. That’s a lot of speculation though.
Seems to me the Chia protocol was somewhat prepared against faking a winning plot, not against faking a losing plot. Pools try to distribute the rewards not based on your personal success, but on your “participation” as per declared pots, this opens the door to just faking plots existence.
With the chances of anyone winning coins being very low in the low TiB range, this faking can fly under the statistical radar for a very, very long time.
A proof of Space/Time that would actually guard against this by avoiding false existence positives would likely be very expensive
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There’s probably a combination of 3 reasons for this discrepancy:
- There are still cheaters on Hpool. (Users cheating the pool)
- HPool pretends to have more space than it actually does (pool cheating the users)
- Hpool self-reports its size in PB, whereas Chia Explorer reports in PiB.
Maybe, but it shouldn’t happen like this. If Hpool’s users are smart, they’ll set up a new wallet on a new system and join a legit pool, while continuing to farm with Hpool. Then they’ll gradually move all of their plots over to the new pool, so their total farm size doesn’t shrink.
Also, there’s a good chance that Hpool itself converts into a legit pool.
wow… I am curious about an explanation…
What website is that? Looks fancy.
It’s from Hpool. There’s a graph that shows assumed total netspace and assumed pool netspace.
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Prolly just another round of banning cheaters. There was a crazy rise in pool size a day back and no going down at the same speed again
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That chart does not show netspace. It shows mining difficulty and pool power (HPool power). But yes. I’m sure that is going down because of their cheater crackdown. Which doesn’t affect overall netspace in any way. But it will affect the winning ratio of people in HPool. Legit farmers will get a higher percent per win.
Blue line denotes assumed Chia netspace. Green is Hpool