No i googled nakamoto coefficient and looked an chia’s stats
https://dashboard.chia.net/d/6S16D9AVk/nakamoto-coefficient?orgId=1
Then selected default
It was designed to farm compressed plots, and it does. It will continue to grow until a better way to farm compressed plots is found.
It was, but it farms them in a way that is bad for the nakamoto coefficient, it could have been designed differently.
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If you’re going to tell stories you should probably tell the whole story, CNI made an attempt to establish a business relationship via the NDA mentioned in past posts, NoSSD flipped out and said CNI was trying to scam them because NDAs are too scary and difficult (any local lawyer could have helped them easily), after that hissyfit NoSSD made the public ransom demand for BTC.
See how dramatically different your angry fist waving story is when we get more details?
This is also why I routinely bring up the emotional outbursts of NoSSD devs, because it demonstrates their mentality, when someone with that mentality has remote update and execute on thousands of computers it elevates the unnecessary security risk to a much higher level, because you’re only one disagreeing angry emotional NoSSD dev away from absolute disaster on your local network.
CHIP22 is an attempt to resolve the issues NoSSD is creating on the network, if NoSSD users and devs do not rapidly adopt it, I can only assume at that point CNI will go a different route to protect the network, at which point NoSSD devs would have shot themselves in the foot for the second time, now likely losing income from farmers as a different solution would get them to move away.
This is one of those moments where users have to make a decision to preserve the network or shoot themselves in the foot, I have a strong feeling there will be a lot of angry people hopping around on one foot soon because others will make the change even if they will not, so some will get left behind.
P.S. Imagine what an emotional group of anonymous devs with remote update and execute to your systems might do if their cashcow is taken away, some things might be prepared ahead of time and you wouldn’t know. (google “LogoFAIL” which recently surfaced, reinstalling the OS doesn’t stop it)
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It appears I remember it more clearly than you. They were offered a lowball 5 figure offer and countered with request for a $2 millions offer, which would have given 4 devs a quarter mil each, not unusual for high talent devs who spent 2 years building it. As for flipping out, they have demonstrated incredible politeness and positive working manners with CNI that is publicly available to view in the GitHub for CNI’s potential 3rd party billing solution. Max was not quite as easy going as they were in fact.
If you think they asked too much for the tech work that is better than anyone else’s, then I suggest you go invent a better mousetrap and sell it cheap, I’ll wait for your announcement. Or not. On the other hand if you don’t have the capability of doing that work, then perhaps you are not also not capable of determining the value of their work.
There are two obvious solutions to CNI’s problem and your whining, 1) Get CNI to break out some serious coins and offer to buy them or 2) someone builds something better. I won’t be expecting either of those from the whiners.
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So clear that you left out critical details that would change a readers perspective.
Whats in dispute is you leaving out the contention of the discussions centering around the NDA and NoSSD’s reaction to blame that for things not being able to work out, followed by their BTC ransom after the fact, which is why I showed there was “more to the story” you “forgot” conveniently.
You suggest NoSSD has demonstrated politeness and positivity for CHIP22 but are ignoring their rude, arrogant, and overly dramatic behavior prior, now that one alternative is replot (forcing them out) or CHIP22, perhaps they don’t want to lose money to their arrogance a second time.
All of thee above is also why I say if NoSSD devs and users don’t make a rapid push to adopt CHIP22, you likely will see an alternative that involves them shooting their other foot because CNI is not going to sit idle while NoSSD continues to destroy the network, CNI offered a fair compromise with CHIP22, the next likely won’t be so moderate because the security of the network is not a gamble to take.
Suggesting one disagreement from MadMax on github suddenly mitigates the earlier behavior of NoSSD is very deceiving, its definitely an attempt to deflect away from NoSSD’s earlier behavior, consistency is key here, especially with the gigantic backdoor NoSSD put back in after promising to remove it, that speaks VOLUMES of their character and you can’t erase that no matter where you point fingers.
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Still waiting for you to deliver a better alternative to NoSSD but I’m probably a lot more likely to have you deliver a pizza to my door, but I tip well, here’s one now: Switch to NoSSD its amazing software!
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Anyway you look at this, CNI owns this debacle. To say otherwise is insane.
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It is not worth your time to reply to that troll. He only operates on memorized keywords and personal anecdotes without any understanding (plenty of verbiage, zero content). There are no sources behind his blabbering, no understanding of chia docs. He will change the goalpost with every reply, give new meaning to different words, just to keep himself amused and continue such exchanged. At least that is what I saw before and what I experienced trying to follow his replies.
If I recall, someone has already mentioned that he was chased off chia discord, or something like that.
With respect to what he wrote so far, he has no understanding what and how NDA works, neither what are the current rates in Silicon Valley when acquiring devs / startups, nor how or when source code is being shown, nor what it means for a company to have VC investors.
Just a total waste of time.
Okay, I’ll throw in my 2 cents. CNI releases trash for farming and plotting. Max and NOSSD come along and release a much better solution. It shouldn’t be any wonder that almost nobody uses the software bundled with the Chia client. No dispute as far as I can tell.
That being said, I think there is a lot of drama over Chia and Crypto in general. As far as I know, no block chain has ever found a marketable solution or provided any real service valuable enough for any company to want to use it. The only way to make money so far is to find someone who is a greater fool than you are to sell it to (greater fool theory). The only way that any crypto will ever have any true value is if there is a real world marketable use of the block chain. Otherwise it’s only vehicle for generating wealth is the bet that some other sucker will pay more than you paid or than you invested in equipment to mine it. I cannot see it any other way at this point in time.
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Just want to add some clarity to your discussion.
CHIP22 was proposed by us. We proposed to make an API for a third party plotting solutions. Our main concern was the fact that 30% of the network is controlled by closed source GH nodes, which could contain bugs or stop updating to newer version releases. This can lead to a network split one day, causing a massive drop in chia price. Max probably has the same concern related to our pool.
We should have been very clear asking for a compensation after the initial release. You either pay a decent amount straight away or stop the discussion immediately. No one would join our pool if we continued and wrote a few more comments negotiating the price. No one would want to plot for a pool that is considered to be sold and closed within a week. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, Sargonas move to come here with a public proposal to buy our tech, or even start a negotiation, could have halted our growth in its infancy. The only way I responded allows us to survive basically. His proposal was also not very solid and looks like a joke from the current perspective. I don’t think he understood the complexity of the project and was ready to pay an adequate compensation. You can find it in the original thread.
There is absolutely no possibility of opening the code under any kind of agreement if the code contains an original and valuable idea that is not protected by a patent. It can be implemented and released under a different name by a different author, and no one would be able to prove that it was indeed observed and leaked from our sources and not an original discovery.
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I get it, the only way you can respond to my challenge of your incorrect statements is to switch up to demeaning and belittling me, you know what I just got done saying about mentality and behavior, you’re demonstrating you don’t want a sincere discussion with facts, you just want what you’ve said to be accepted and to be beyond reproach, so here we are, you resorting to insults as a response.
NoSSD has confirmed libtorrent is buried inside their software for remote update and execute, thats a fact, you can confirm via blockchain rewards the impact NoSSD is having on decentralization, nobody can dispute that so you want to demean and belittle me to get others to ignore these facts.
I have been incredibly consistent with my statements about the above, that has not waivered.
“Someone said something” so you confirmed that was a fact?
I have not been removed from the Chia Discord, you could confirm that but its unlikely you will, because your goal isn’t to present facts, just demean and belittle someone to get others to dismiss them.
Perhaps you should start using facts, instead of relying on rumors, it discredits you immensely.
I have signed NDAs and I have negotiated whats inside the NDAs before I signed them, this is a very common thing for people to do, people who have signed them likely have done this exact thing.
Another case of your “facts” being personal opinion or rumors, just like your discord ban myth.
I get it, all you can do is demean and belittle me because thats your only way to dismiss and discount what I have stated, which is not in dispute aside from those using insults to dodge the points made.
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Dude, I ordered extra peperoni and this is what you come up with?
There is only Chia Pizza, two for 10000 XCH.
What are your thoughts on NoSSD seriously reducing the nakamoto coefficient of Chia?
Do you think its a good thing or a bad thing?
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This seems a bit disingenuous, since CNI created the proposal. True yourselves and Max were the key stakeholders in this and gave your concerns and feedback on this CHIP in the review process. However, CNI’s creation of the CHIP was likely due to both the concerns you have pointed out, but really the Nakamoto coefficient being the primary concern. This is almost certainly why the CHIP was considered a fast tracked review and why there were direct communications between CNI and both Max’s and your teams, with a push for expedited development (which is easy to say from CNI’s standpoint).
As for the compensation debacle for the initial release, it seemed to me that there was a level of mistrust and strong-arming from both sides. Its understandable that you were hesitant to even attempt to go through a long NDA process knowing the end goal of CNI would be to obtain the source code or even some sort of high-level overview of the process to be gleaned from their testing. However, from CNI’s perspective a payment to a bitcoin address prior to knowing any further details is also simply not an option for obvious reasons.
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ok I’ll cancel the extra peperoni and take this one!
I would ignore nakamoto coefficient (NC), as that is not an exact calculation, plus it depends what is being considered (e.g., number of coins could be considered as well, and here goes pre-farm) - https://learn.bybit.com/blockchain/nakamoto-coefficient-decentralization/. On the other hand, I would focus on that majority attack from chia docs, as that shows how serious it is - Attacks and Countermeasures | Chia Documentation.
For instance, if you check that chia dashboard, the current slope of NC is basically flat. This is not to say that the current value is irrelevant, but it doesn’t tell us when and what can happen. Also, I am not sure what the floor is, whether 0 or 1, regardless of it with the current slope there is some time to go (e.g., to hard fork a new plot format). So, as i mentioned in the previous post, that is only one of those buzzwords used to scare people without providing much details and sounding sophisticated.
On the other hand, if NoSSD will come up with a fast timelord, they can potentially take over the network today. If, for the sake of argument, Max will modify his farmer for the next release and add a fast timelord, he can also take over the chain. Both parties have shown that they have capabilities that chia is clearly not comprehending, thus does not know how and when to react.
From my point of view, Chip 22 is just another thing that shows that they don’t know what they are doing (they should have had it the day NoSSD announced their software), as it really depends on whether Max, NoSSD and DrPlotter will incorporate it, and I don’t see a reason why they should do that (from their perspective).
However, as I mentioned, I have only a few XCH, and some H/W. So, I don’t worry too much about it, plus I cannot do anything about it (I am GH team). On the other hand, Bram and Gene potentially own (through stock options) about 50% of pre-farm. So, they have plenty to lose. Also, they have VC lawyers potentially looking over their shoulders. Assuming that the pre-farm is worth $1b (just to get a simple number), it is a no brainer to pay $2m without much red-tape (that NoSSD asked for in reply to that chia’s idiotic proposal) to get either GH or NoSSD. With GH, chia could integrate it in the next release, as it is basically a slightly modified chia farmer code to get that 0.25, where the harvester handles all plots but NoSSD and DrPlotter, so it is more or less a drop-in code.
Basically, due to myopic vision, chia screwed both deals with NoSSD and Max, then sat on their hands thinking that 30% is the max where compression can go, where today, we have 4x DrPlotter already, and nVidia 5k is around the corner.
Still, maybe a hard fork / new plot format is really what should be the main priority right now (again, most likely if they would like to, there is a chance that both NoSSD and Max could kill it - due to consensus needed, but I don’t know much about this side).
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I don’t think its either at this point in time, its a young chain and what tech is on top now may not be the tech that is on top 24 months from now. It’s a constant evolution so getting panties tied in knots this early is a waste of time. A much bigger threat is CNI not getting any traction and having to cut their staff in half again. And believe me when I say whale investors are not much interested in buying XCH coins with such a huge pre-mine. In my world, CNI performance and pre-mine is a bigger threat to the coin than Max or NoSSD.
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On day one we had the pre-mine, now we’ve got additional factors causing further complications, so the threats have multiplied.
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