Yeah, but you don’t tango with drJones (or whatever that account was) 
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I was certainly more of a dick to him, but ppl shouldn’t be posting pvt info about others on a public forum.
This topic has been discussed before, i.e. here: No rewards for 9863 plots for about a month
My solution was to replot for pools. I haven’t thought about this issue until now.
However, I also believe that there is “something” that can go wrong with farming OG plots that is not easy to diagnose with the provided logs (see the link above for examples). But now that we have the pooling option, just replot and you will have your earnings pouring in as expected (perhaps with lower frequency of 0.25 rewards vs. statistically expected). This is your quick fix farm solution, and that is the best way forward for people having similar problems if winning XCH is of any value to you.
On the other hand, I get the frustration with winning less blocks vs. expected over time, and if there is a common problem that hinders the proper amount of winnings to happen according to basic probability over time, then Chia team (if you read this) please add simple error messaging in the chia GUI and make a video explaining what are the reasons for these big (or small) farmers loosing out on all these rewards with OG plots. Perhaps some case studies with concrete examples of what the problems were could be helpful as well.
That’s my 2 cents again on this topic.
Can someone please explain the logic here?
Why would whales lock everyone out from farming chia?
Let’s say I have 2tb plots, I join a pool and win chia. Why am I “locked out”? I don’t get it.
Please explain your logic here. Why does it matter if I have 2EB of plots or 1TB of plots? The winnings just scale linearly with the amount of plots/investment in HDDs that I made. That is the basic math here.
Pretty amusing, with a sober mind I can spot a really big problem for the OP, but alas, just something to amuse me now, help is of the table .
Let’s say I have the resources to build out a 10EB farm. Inside I have fiber connections to everything and outside my facility I have a redundant fiber connection to a close by fiber backbone. Combining all this provides much faster response times and a much higher statistical average of winning due to the number of plots (lottery tickets) that I have and how fast my system responds. At that point I’ve squeezed out anyone farming on just their local computer, running on wi-fi, or on their common internet provider.
From my own personal experience, I’ve only won with OG plots at the same time there was a sudden significant drop in the total netspace. I have no way of proving it, but my guess is a few of the whales got their internet blocked or had connection issues at a state / country level giving everyone else an opportunity. That was before NFT plots and official pools.
What is your take on the original goal and presentation of XCH? I recall that they said anyone can farm on their personal computer and have a chance of winning. In your opinion was Chia supposed to be an opportunity for an average person or an opportunity for the extremely wealthy to add to their cofers? And did they succeed in their original goal?
You can’t base a belief on concepts that are patently incorrect.
This may help u see how rewards are actually won and why your idea of a ‘super-farmer’ does not work out.
First I would ask did you take some bad med? When reading some of this you sound like a tree hugger that hasn’t learned to spell.
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Small farms can use pool plots and win chia.
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In my personal experience, the bigger farm I get, the more troubles/complexity I have. I.e. if one of my hard drives has a serious problem, it can make my whole farm/harvester unresponsive. I can imagine that scaling a farm to 10EB would exacerbate such issues and create more downtime vs. keeping everything small scale with a couple of hdds farming on a PC with a pool.
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The (one of them) original goal was to involve small farmers with unused space on their hard drives. This became a problem with the explosion in netspace when the pooling protocol was not yet released. However, now we have pools, and a small farmer can easily plot some pool plots and participate - would you agree? I would therefore say that the initial goal has been achieved.
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The extremely wealthy who invested large sums of money into huge farms later in the game have been the big loosers so far. With the current profitability of chia farming they are not very profitable (if they didn’t start their farming business extremely early that is) and if they have taken big loans to support their business, they should soon run out of capital to pay off the interest of their initial investment. That is why I think we see many angry people cursing chia since it didn’t make them rich quick.
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Hey, easy on the tree huggers, we’re good folk!
Perhaps this will help better explain what I’m trying to say.
From your statement I don’t think I’m conveying the idea I’m trying to. A ‘super-farmer’ certainly does what I’m saying. Run the numbers yourself in the link above.
Here we have a farmer with a TB over one Year:
Here we have a farmer with 300TB over one Year:
Then we have a farmer (whale) with 1EB over just ONE Day:
Run the numbers yourself if you don’t believe what I’ve posted. The value of a decentralized asset class (as classified by U.S. tax law - no CPA or financial advise should be taken from this statement) is much higher than a centralized asset class. Chia has become centralized or is moving swiftly towards it. A very few, and probably not the Chia Devs, control so much XCH at this stage that they can manipulate the market. That’s not a healthy situation for any crypto or fiat for that matter.
Had some efforts been put into motion to prevent this or mitigate it maybe I’d have greater hopes. Right now I still pool my plots and haven’t repurposed the hardware, so I’m still devoted to the success of XCH. But I fear that success is threatened by the offsided power of the whale sized farms. Oh, and I’ve seen the netspace swing by 3 and 4 EB nearly instantly. That really looks like there are some very large whales swimming these seas.
Hi yengilz,
Thank you for your well written and rounded response. Yes, I agree with your points for the most part.
Regarding point #2, I saw trouble coming before I stood up my farm. Due to what it looked like I’d need for storage I personally used server array controllers, chasses, and drives out of the gate. Used equipment of course. I can have two drives fail on one of those arrays at the same time and still stay running with nothing even feeling a blip. Granted I have datacenter design experience so setting up a 300TB farm over a weekend was nothing. Well, an investment of course, but not technically difficult. With a financial backer like some of these farms seem to have then getting to 10EB would just be a fun few months. I agree I think that ship has sailed.
What he is trying to say is that there is fault in your logic … You said that a large farmer with all those resources will basically make it impossible for a small farmer to win. That just isn’t correct. If the small farmer has his setup right and responds within the time limit for the challenge he has just as much of a chance if the large farmer was there or not. Either that challenge response is good or it’s not. It is the quality of the challenge response, not it’s speed that determines the winner. So if the small farmer responds in time and has the best response, he wins. None of the other factors matter.
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Hi WolfGT,
This isn’t a good assumption: “If the small farmer has his setup right and responds within the time limit for the challenge he has just as much of a chance if the large farmer was there or not.”
As there are a limited number of farmable XCH per day, your assumption can’t be true. As I indicated above somewhere, a whale farmer with fiber backchannel and fiber internet close enough to a backbone could have response speeds much faster than an average farmer. Also assuming with that level of resources they also have several EB of plots across many farms then they would pull down a high percentage of the 9216 farmable daily XCH. This is the very scenario that has not been discussed and mitigated.
As to the quality of the response factor, the whale farmer having such an exponentially larger number of plots and farms is going to have a higher level of quality responses too.
Every current mitigation is circumvented by the scenario so many concerned farmers are trying to convey as a problematic situation that risks the decentralized validity of Chia. The Devs need to come up with a mitigation for this. Maybe they can’t and that’s why they refuse to discuss the issue.
Yes, what you say. A good succinct wording. His fantasy is that the fastest farmer hwd & response gives the advantage, regardless. I don’t believe anything, like facts, will change his opinion. Doesn’t matter really, the truth wins every time.
What he is saying is not how it works though right??? That’s not the way my tiny brain interpreted the entire process.
Your incorrect. Do more research. Or listen to those who know better.
Ah, you are correct. Each farm has 4608 chances per day to win 2 XCH. Then past that it’s all about how many plots are on the farm. Or is it the size of the plot that matters? The statement below is mildly vague. If the latter, then would a K33 win against a K32?
From Chia Central: “Each plot is competing to have the best proof of space where the chances of getting a reward are dependant on the total size of plots in your Farm.”
So, there’s probably a mathematically perfect size of farm per chances per day. Then break out as many farms as possible up to EB levels and that’s a whale. Still possible to game the system this way?
So how is your scam doin brothers? Some of you people have a logic of these man:
Ok, now seriously. Truth does not win nearly as often as we’d all hope it does. I’m fairly sure the current state of the planet is a wonderfully depressing example of that.
And I admit below that I was incorrect on my theory. Still have questions on whether there’s some gaming of the system going on of course.